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I'm not sure why so few people are aware of this, but The Three Body Problem is just thinly veiled nationalist propaganda. All you have to do to see it is switc

I'm not sure why so few people are aware of this, but The Three Body Problem is just thinly veiled nationalist propaganda. All you have to do to see it is switch the alien antagonists with Western colonial powers.

yongjik 5y ago
> All you have to do to see it is switch the alien antagonists with Western colonial powers. Isn't this basically saying "If you read the bad guys as the West, then the novel portrays the West as the bad guys"?
mdoms 5y ago
Yes every Chinese person is out to get you.
- chaostheory 5y ago
  1. Do you know what I'm referring to? 2. I have only mentioned one sci-fi author, and not an entire ethnic group. 3. I am also Chinese myself.
SkyMarshal 5y ago
I think that part is obvious, at least to anyone who can read between the lines, so maybe not to young children. Also in a world still trying to make nice with the CCP, nobody was going to talk much about that aspect anyway. But the interesting thing that Liu accomplished with these books, is communicating how it feels to be faced with a technologically superior adversary intent on colonizing you. That’s not something most modern Americans and many others have ever experienced, but Liu made it universally relatable. Worse, you have a means of leveling the playing field, rapidly catching up, but your leaders and society keep making poor decisions, preventing you from doing so - trusting the Trisolarians after Luo Ji became Swordholder, Luo Ji’s successor, banning light speed research, strategy for defending against a Dark Forest strike, etc. That is probably what it felt like living under the CCP for a long time - Great Leap Forward (famine), Cultural Revolution (destruction of knowledge and science), etc. all unnecessary setbacks to China's advancement. I suspect that’s partly why the books have captured so many people’s imaginations, it's an exploration of cultural systems and psychology as much of scifi.
goatlover 5y ago
The next two books explore the Dark Forest Theory and the Fermi Paradox, and how humanity, including the Western powers, try to deal with this realization and the pending Trisolarian invasion. The third book goes way into the future beyond the Earth, and even has a chapter from a different alien POV. Read like legitimate science fiction to me with a different cultural context.
enragedcacti 5y ago
I really don't see what makes it inherently nationalist propaganda as opposed to just being anti-colonialist in general. What about the book makes you feel that it is trying to specifically proselytize a pro-CCP view of China's relationship to the world as opposed to an indictment of colonization as a whole?
davesque 5y ago
Huh? Did we read the same book? You know, the one where one of the main characters remembers her father being beat to death for refusing to recant his belief in Einstein's theory of relativity during a CCP struggle session? And that outcome is unambiguously framed as being unfair? That's supposed to be nationalist propaganda?
- chaostheory 5y ago
  Like with Asimov's Foundation, the details don't matter as much as the larger story arc. The larger story arc is a mirror of the start of China's era of humiliation to its present day ascendancy as a superpower.
  - davesque 5y ago
    Perhaps. Although can't you superimpose almost any narrative onto any story? Listen, I definitely understand that Mr. Cixin is likely hinting at certain things symbolically in his stories. Clearly, the CCP requires no less of highly visible people in Chinese society. But I don't personally believe that there's some grand, singular purpose behind TBP that is hiding in plain view. Mr. Cixin, like the rest of us, is a multi-faceted human being that happens to be from a certain country.
    - chaostheory 5y ago
      No. Writers often use allegories and metaphors. It’s not exclusive to Western writers. We’ll just agree to disagree
wolverine876 5y ago
> The Three Body Problem is just thinly veiled nationalist propaganda. All you have to do to see it is switch the alien antagonists with Western colonial powers. I'm usually quite alert to such things, and didn't see it. In part, it seemed like a way to talk about the horrors of the Cultural Revolution - which would seem to work against nationalism. It's been a long time since I read it - can you give some broad examples?
- chaostheory 5y ago
  The story doesn't mirror history exactly, but it is an allegory to China's period of humiliation to the present day. - The Doomsday Battle best matches the British Chinese Opium War - The aliens are a seemingly advanced adversary that's in decline. Guess who's in decline right now?
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    Thanks. > Guess who's in decline right now? That's current CCP propaganda. Because it's current, it wasn't being said when The Three Body Problem was written (first published 2006, afaik). Because it's propaganda, let's not cite it as fact.
    - chaostheory 5y ago
      > That’s current CCP propaganda. Most of what I wrote is my personal opinion since the author hasn’t openly admitted the metaphors. Many historians agree that the US has been in decline for decades now. It is not a new idea that the CCP just recently invented https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_decline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_decline

yongjik 5y ago

> All you have to do to see it is switch the alien antagonists with Western colonial powers. Isn't this basically saying "If you read the bad guys as the West, then the novel portrays the West as the bad guys"?

mdoms 5y ago

Yes every Chinese person is out to get you.

chaostheory 5y ago
1. Do you know what I'm referring to? 2. I have only mentioned one sci-fi author, and not an entire ethnic group. 3. I am also Chinese myself.

SkyMarshal 5y ago

I think that part is obvious, at least to anyone who can read between the lines, so maybe not to young children. Also in a world still trying to make nice with the CCP, nobody was going to talk much about that aspect anyway. But the interesting thing that Liu accomplished with these books, is communicating how it feels to be faced with a technologically superior adversary intent on colonizing you. That’s not something most modern Americans and many others have ever experienced, but Liu made it universally relatable. Worse, you have a means of leveling the playing field, rapidly catching up, but your leaders and society keep making poor decisions, preventing you from doing so - trusting the Trisolarians after Luo Ji became Swordholder, Luo Ji’s successor, banning light speed research, strategy for defending against a Dark Forest strike, etc. That is probably what it felt like living under the CCP for a long time - Great Leap Forward (famine), Cultural Revolution (destruction of knowledge and science), etc. all unnecessary setbacks to China's advancement. I suspect that’s partly why the books have captured so many people’s imaginations, it's an exploration of cultural systems and psychology as much of scifi.

goatlover 5y ago

The next two books explore the Dark Forest Theory and the Fermi Paradox, and how humanity, including the Western powers, try to deal with this realization and the pending Trisolarian invasion. The third book goes way into the future beyond the Earth, and even has a chapter from a different alien POV. Read like legitimate science fiction to me with a different cultural context.

enragedcacti 5y ago

I really don't see what makes it inherently nationalist propaganda as opposed to just being anti-colonialist in general. What about the book makes you feel that it is trying to specifically proselytize a pro-CCP view of China's relationship to the world as opposed to an indictment of colonization as a whole?

davesque 5y ago

Huh? Did we read the same book? You know, the one where one of the main characters remembers her father being beat to death for refusing to recant his belief in Einstein's theory of relativity during a CCP struggle session? And that outcome is unambiguously framed as being unfair? That's supposed to be nationalist propaganda?

chaostheory 5y ago
Like with Asimov's Foundation, the details don't matter as much as the larger story arc. The larger story arc is a mirror of the start of China's era of humiliation to its present day ascendancy as a superpower.
- davesque 5y ago
  Perhaps. Although can't you superimpose almost any narrative onto any story? Listen, I definitely understand that Mr. Cixin is likely hinting at certain things symbolically in his stories. Clearly, the CCP requires no less of highly visible people in Chinese society. But I don't personally believe that there's some grand, singular purpose behind TBP that is hiding in plain view. Mr. Cixin, like the rest of us, is a multi-faceted human being that happens to be from a certain country.
  - chaostheory 5y ago
    No. Writers often use allegories and metaphors. It’s not exclusive to Western writers. We’ll just agree to disagree

wolverine876 5y ago

> The Three Body Problem is just thinly veiled nationalist propaganda. All you have to do to see it is switch the alien antagonists with Western colonial powers. I'm usually quite alert to such things, and didn't see it. In part, it seemed like a way to talk about the horrors of the Cultural Revolution - which would seem to work against nationalism. It's been a long time since I read it - can you give some broad examples?

chaostheory 5y ago
The story doesn't mirror history exactly, but it is an allegory to China's period of humiliation to the present day. - The Doomsday Battle best matches the British Chinese Opium War - The aliens are a seemingly advanced adversary that's in decline. Guess who's in decline right now?
- wolverine876 5y ago
  Thanks. > Guess who's in decline right now? That's current CCP propaganda. Because it's current, it wasn't being said when The Three Body Problem was written (first published 2006, afaik). Because it's propaganda, let's not cite it as fact.
  - chaostheory 5y ago
    > That’s current CCP propaganda. Most of what I wrote is my personal opinion since the author hasn’t openly admitted the metaphors. Many historians agree that the US has been in decline for decades now. It is not a new idea that the CCP just recently invented https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_decline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_decline