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> they would have existed as managed by the natives prior to European settlement as the state that is most worthy of reconstruction This is magical thinking; t

> they would have existed as managed by the natives prior to European settlement as the state that is most worthy of reconstruction This is magical thinking; the First Nations are, and were, human. The Huron, for instance, would move their settlements once they had "used up" all the readily available resources (mostly game animals) in the area. The First Nations were only better "custodians" of the land because they lacked the means to abuse the land as thoroughly as European "settlers".

mac01021 5y ago
Precolonial New England was mostly forest and was home to less than 100,000 people. I don't know how concerned those people were with sustainability or with being custodians of the land. But, even if they cared nought about such things, that need not mean that the state of the forest during their reign is not a worthy target for modern-day conservationists.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
It's more complicated than that. Yes, not all the land was being actively maintained at any one time but the 200ft pines, abundance of fruit/nut bearing plants and game species that come with them is a direct result of native land management practices throughout the broader region despite any particular square not necessarily being actively managed at any particular point in time. Relocating (and they didn't relocate far, remember this is inhabited land after all, you can't just set up shop on the neighbor gang's turf) is the native equivalent of leaving a field fallow. But because the natives were working with animal and plant species the feedback loop is potentially decades long (depending on local resources) vs farmers who will leave a field fallow every few years. I agree that they would have left the place barren had they had the means but you have to consider that what they were doing was stable on a 500+yr timeline which is a pretty good run. My point here is that the impenetrable thicket a lot of environmentalists want to maintain is not particularly representative of "peak forest". I'm sure they all want to see blueberries and 200ft pines but just doing nothing won't achieve that because that's not a state that new england forests can (and certainly not today since we've got all sorts of invasive species and pests) get themselves into without human intervention either directly on a particular parcel of land or on enough near proximity land to influence the ecology of the parcel in question.
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
It's far from clear that native Americans lacked the means of initial European settlers. I agree that we should not indulge in "magical thinking", but non-American cultures display a wide variety of sensibilities with respect to defining "used up". There are traditions even within Europe that are relatively respectful of carrying capacity, but they have mostly been trampled on by industrialization and capitalism. It's entirely possible that native American resource management was closer to these older European traditions than those of the last 200 years.

mac01021 5y ago

Precolonial New England was mostly forest and was home to less than 100,000 people. I don't know how concerned those people were with sustainability or with being custodians of the land. But, even if they cared nought about such things, that need not mean that the state of the forest during their reign is not a worthy target for modern-day conservationists.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

It's more complicated than that. Yes, not all the land was being actively maintained at any one time but the 200ft pines, abundance of fruit/nut bearing plants and game species that come with them is a direct result of native land management practices throughout the broader region despite any particular square not necessarily being actively managed at any particular point in time. Relocating (and they didn't relocate far, remember this is inhabited land after all, you can't just set up shop on the neighbor gang's turf) is the native equivalent of leaving a field fallow. But because the natives were working with animal and plant species the feedback loop is potentially decades long (depending on local resources) vs farmers who will leave a field fallow every few years. I agree that they would have left the place barren had they had the means but you have to consider that what they were doing was stable on a 500+yr timeline which is a pretty good run. My point here is that the impenetrable thicket a lot of environmentalists want to maintain is not particularly representative of "peak forest". I'm sure they all want to see blueberries and 200ft pines but just doing nothing won't achieve that because that's not a state that new england forests can (and certainly not today since we've got all sorts of invasive species and pests) get themselves into without human intervention either directly on a particular parcel of land or on enough near proximity land to influence the ecology of the parcel in question.

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago

It's far from clear that native Americans lacked the means of initial European settlers. I agree that we should not indulge in "magical thinking", but non-American cultures display a wide variety of sensibilities with respect to defining "used up". There are traditions even within Europe that are relatively respectful of carrying capacity, but they have mostly been trampled on by industrialization and capitalism. It's entirely possible that native American resource management was closer to these older European traditions than those of the last 200 years.