3 ms·

The question remains - why sell or ever use it if it continues to go up? This will continue to perpetuate itself until the inevitable great stagnation and subs

The question remains - why sell or ever use it if it continues to go up? This will continue to perpetuate itself until the inevitable great stagnation and subsequent crash. We’re currently in the worlds biggest and longest asset inflation run. Let’s see how it does during a true Great Depression.

capableweb 5y ago
You seem to argue two things in the same comment, which conflict with each other. If there is a stagnation (the price stands still), then people would start using it (since your point is that people are not using it now because the price goes up), how would that lead to a crash in that case? Not that I agree with any of your points, your message seems confusing as it stands now.
- endisneigh 5y ago
  If and when there’s stagnation there will be no reason to hold crypto over fiat, and hence people will cash out. If you knew the price would never increase or decrease you would cash out to move to more productive uses of your money.
  - capableweb 5y ago
    If fiat had the same properties as cryptocurrencies, I'd agree with you. But you have to at least agree (or understand rather) that they are in fact different, for good or bad. So maybe people other than you see value in those differences.
  - ur-whale 5y ago
    > If and when there’s stagnation there will be no reason to hold crypto over fiat I would disagree. Holding Bitcoin and not telling a soul will shield your wealth against quite a few "events" (divorce, bankruptcy, seizure, etc...) Doing the same with cash involves a shovel, a GPS and very long walks in the wilderness.
  - throw0101a 5y ago
    > If you knew the price would never increase or decrease you would cash out to move to more productive uses of your money. If the only reason you hold an asset is you think the price will go up, aren't you subscribing to: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory As opposed to holding an asset like AAPL (dividends) or AMZN (earnings growth), where in addition price growth I'm getting a share of future revenues/profits? What future revenues/profits am/will I be getting with BTC? (Or gold for that matter: which is why Buffett isn't into it.)
schleck8 5y ago
It's called a ponzi scheme
- kordlessagain 5y ago
  It's a fancy one though.
keymone 5y ago
> why sell or ever use it if it continues to go up because you need to eat and live and pay your bills?
- endisneigh 5y ago
  You don’t need to sell your coins to get cash to use.
  - keymone 5y ago
    that's sort of baked in assumption in questions like that: all your assets are in coins, why would you ever sell them if their value only goes up? because living involves consumption of various resources, other than just coins.
  - ur-whale 5y ago
    > You don’t need to sell your coins to get cash to use. OK ... please explain? Are you talking about taking loans using your coins as collateral? With the kind of volatility BTC exhibits, that's quite a gutsy proposition. Any other way to get cash without selling your coins?
    - bhaak 5y ago
      How about not putting cash that you need to live into a deflationary asset you don't want to sell? There is no place on Earth where you need to spend Bitcoin to live. There is always another option. If you believe Bitcoin to be better money than Fiat then you won't spend Bitcoin and Gresham's law applies.
  - SilasX 5y ago
    True, but if you mean borrowing against them, then you risk getting margin called and having a forced sale at a far worse price.
  - progforlyfe 5y ago
    True, but you could use a little to buy stuff off Amazon for example. Think of it like an automatic discount. I use purse.io for this along with dollar cost averaging.
kordlessagain 5y ago
You would do well to consider the usage of power to fuel this moon mission.
missinfo 5y ago
Why ever sell your stock if they continue to go up? The answer is whenever you need the money. Same with Bitcoin. People need a store of value that beats inflation. Cash is shedding its value. The return on cash is literally negative between low interest rates and high inflation.
- endisneigh 5y ago
  Other than the fact that they both cost money there’s basically no similarity between stocks in companies and Bitcoin.
throw0101a 5y ago
> The question remains - why sell or ever use it if it continues to go up? This is basically the definition of a deflationary currency, which Bitcoin has been called by some: * https://www.skalex.io/deflationary-economics-bitcoin/ https://www.skalex.io/deflationary-economics-bitcoin/ Bitcoin though is fairly dividable (see satoshis), so it may not apply as much as to, say, ounces of gold. > We’re currently in the worlds biggest and longest asset inflation run. Let’s see how it does during a true Great Depression. The Gold Standard, another deflationary system, helped to make the Great Depression much worse: * https://www.nber.org/books-and-chapters/financial-markets-and-financial-crises/gold-standard-deflation-and-financial-crisis-great-depression-international-comparison https://www.nber.org/books-and-chapters/financial-markets-an...

capableweb 5y ago

You seem to argue two things in the same comment, which conflict with each other. If there is a stagnation (the price stands still), then people would start using it (since your point is that people are not using it now because the price goes up), how would that lead to a crash in that case? Not that I agree with any of your points, your message seems confusing as it stands now.

endisneigh 5y ago
If and when there’s stagnation there will be no reason to hold crypto over fiat, and hence people will cash out. If you knew the price would never increase or decrease you would cash out to move to more productive uses of your money.
- capableweb 5y ago
  If fiat had the same properties as cryptocurrencies, I'd agree with you. But you have to at least agree (or understand rather) that they are in fact different, for good or bad. So maybe people other than you see value in those differences.
- ur-whale 5y ago
  > If and when there’s stagnation there will be no reason to hold crypto over fiat I would disagree. Holding Bitcoin and not telling a soul will shield your wealth against quite a few "events" (divorce, bankruptcy, seizure, etc...) Doing the same with cash involves a shovel, a GPS and very long walks in the wilderness.
- throw0101a 5y ago
  > If you knew the price would never increase or decrease you would cash out to move to more productive uses of your money. If the only reason you hold an asset is you think the price will go up, aren't you subscribing to: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory As opposed to holding an asset like AAPL (dividends) or AMZN (earnings growth), where in addition price growth I'm getting a share of future revenues/profits? What future revenues/profits am/will I be getting with BTC? (Or gold for that matter: which is why Buffett isn't into it.)

schleck8 5y ago

It's called a ponzi scheme

kordlessagain 5y ago
It's a fancy one though.

keymone 5y ago

> why sell or ever use it if it continues to go up because you need to eat and live and pay your bills?

endisneigh 5y ago
You don’t need to sell your coins to get cash to use.
- keymone 5y ago
  that's sort of baked in assumption in questions like that: all your assets are in coins, why would you ever sell them if their value only goes up? because living involves consumption of various resources, other than just coins.
- ur-whale 5y ago
  > You don’t need to sell your coins to get cash to use. OK ... please explain? Are you talking about taking loans using your coins as collateral? With the kind of volatility BTC exhibits, that's quite a gutsy proposition. Any other way to get cash without selling your coins?
  - bhaak 5y ago
    How about not putting cash that you need to live into a deflationary asset you don't want to sell? There is no place on Earth where you need to spend Bitcoin to live. There is always another option. If you believe Bitcoin to be better money than Fiat then you won't spend Bitcoin and Gresham's law applies.
- SilasX 5y ago
  True, but if you mean borrowing against them, then you risk getting margin called and having a forced sale at a far worse price.
- progforlyfe 5y ago
  True, but you could use a little to buy stuff off Amazon for example. Think of it like an automatic discount. I use purse.io for this along with dollar cost averaging.

kordlessagain 5y ago

You would do well to consider the usage of power to fuel this moon mission.

missinfo 5y ago

Why ever sell your stock if they continue to go up? The answer is whenever you need the money. Same with Bitcoin. People need a store of value that beats inflation. Cash is shedding its value. The return on cash is literally negative between low interest rates and high inflation.

endisneigh 5y ago
Other than the fact that they both cost money there’s basically no similarity between stocks in companies and Bitcoin.

throw0101a 5y ago

> The question remains - why sell or ever use it if it continues to go up? This is basically the definition of a deflationary currency, which Bitcoin has been called by some: * https://www.skalex.io/deflationary-economics-bitcoin/ https://www.skalex.io/deflationary-economics-bitcoin/ Bitcoin though is fairly dividable (see satoshis), so it may not apply as much as to, say, ounces of gold. > We’re currently in the worlds biggest and longest asset inflation run. Let’s see how it does during a true Great Depression. The Gold Standard, another deflationary system, helped to make the Great Depression much worse: * https://www.nber.org/books-and-chapters/financial-markets-and-financial-crises/gold-standard-deflation-and-financial-crisis-great-depression-international-comparison https://www.nber.org/books-and-chapters/financial-markets-an...