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You do not have to use iCloud Photos either. However, Google is scanning everything in your account. We recently had a thread from a historian whose entire ac

You do not have to use iCloud Photos either. However, Google is scanning everything in your account. We recently had a thread from a historian whose entire account was suspended after Google scanned all the files in his Google Drive, and didn't like what they saw (files on the history of tanks). https://support.google.com/accounts/thread/81988101/google-locked-my-account-for-sharing-a-historical-archive-they-labelled-as-terrorism-content?hl=en https://support.google.com/accounts/thread/81988101/google-l...

lern_too_spel 5y ago
> You do not have to use iCloud Photos either. If you want your photos to upload in the background, iCloud Photos is your only choice on iOS. Not so on Android. This makes backing up photos to a server privately on iOS essentially unusable. This kind of crippling anti-privacy pro-Apple-profits design permeates iOS. You cannot even install an app on your device without giving Apple your billing details and letting them know you installed it, which is used for ads. You cannot get your location without also telling it to Apple. You cannot tell Apple not to track your WiFi SSID's location. You cannot uninstall Apple News, which is filled with user tracking for ads. On and on. > We recently had a thread from a historian whose entire account was suspended after Google scanned all the files in his Google Drive, You're comparing iOS to the wrong entity when you compare it to Google instead of Android, but even your comparison to Google is faulty. Your link is about Google suspending an account for files shared publicly, not about Google scanning all the files in that account. Section V.B. of https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/ https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/ says that sharing those types of images publicly is also a violation of the iCloud TOS, and Apple has the right to do the same thing. The difference is that Apple will probably handle the customer complaint better, but that is an issue of customer service, not privacy.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  > If you want your photos to upload in the background, iCloud Photos is your only choice on iOS. Nope. Background App Refresh has allowed any iOS app to update data between the server and client in the background for more than half a decade. Apple has discussed scanning photos uploaded to the iCloud Photos portion of their cloud service in the future, but nothing is scanned now. Google has been scanning everything in in their user's cloud accounts for the past decade. Also, given Google's reluctance to pay human beings to supervise decisions made by their algorithms, I have zero doubt that Google is turning in users when they have a single false positive.
  - lern_too_spel 5y ago
    Background App Refresh was added in 2019. How did that more than half a decade pass in two years? You're right though, iOS is not as terrible as it used to be. For many years, Apple crippled other background sync services relative to its own, and it continues to cripple other services relative to its own on iOS. All the other privacy-invading criticisms remain, making iOS an awful choice for privacy. I still don't know why you're comparing iOS to Google. As I've already explained, that is the wrong comparison. I can use my own services on Android. Apple is planning to scan photos in iCloud (and already does in mail) and only hasn't because their services are still so basic, so it is just as bad as Google in that respect but only temporarily better due to incompetence. My own server does not scan and review photos and never will.
    - GeekyBear 5y ago
      Background App Refresh was added in iOS 7 which launched 8 years ago. I guess I could have said almost a decade ago. So, again, Apple only discussed scanning the iCloud Photos portion of their cloud service some time in the future, but NOTHING is being scanned now. Google, on the other hand, has been scanning everything in your account for the past decade. Also, documents from the discovery phase of Google's various antitrust trials show that Google has literally pressured device makers to hide the privacy settings from users. Google also buys a copy of everybody's credit/debit card transaction data so they can spy on your real world purchases as much as they spy on your online life. A company with surveillance capitalism as it's business model, like Google, will always be motivated to violate user privacy as much as possible. I don't know why you're still trying to pretend that Google's cloud service is separate from Android while Apple's cloud service is not separate from iOS?
      - lern_too_spel 5y ago
        > So, again, Apple only discussed scanning the iCloud Photos portion of their cloud service some time in the future, but NOTHING is being scanned now. I acknowledged that. The point is that they admitted this is an oversight because they are already scanning iCloud Mail. Their intentions are exactly the same as Google's. They are merely less competent. Apple is also a surveillance capitalist, as I explained in my previous post, giving several examples. iOS even splits the privacy settings of Apple's apps from the privacy settings of all other apps to make it harder for users to control what little Apple lets them control. > Google also buys a copy of everybody's credit/debit card transaction data so they can spy on your real world purchases as much as they spy on your online life. Apple gets the exact same information for transactions completed with Apple Pay. Users have to opt in for Google to see this information. Once again, exactly the same. > I don't know why you're still trying to pretend that Google's cloud service is separate from Android while Apple's cloud service is not separate from iOS? I already explained why. I don't have to use Google services on Android. iOS ties me to Apple's privacy nightmare. I listed several other examples of Apple data collection on iOS that are unavoidable. Android, even in builds provided by Google, has none of those problems.

lern_too_spel 5y ago

> You do not have to use iCloud Photos either. If you want your photos to upload in the background, iCloud Photos is your only choice on iOS. Not so on Android. This makes backing up photos to a server privately on iOS essentially unusable. This kind of crippling anti-privacy pro-Apple-profits design permeates iOS. You cannot even install an app on your device without giving Apple your billing details and letting them know you installed it, which is used for ads. You cannot get your location without also telling it to Apple. You cannot tell Apple not to track your WiFi SSID's location. You cannot uninstall Apple News, which is filled with user tracking for ads. On and on. > We recently had a thread from a historian whose entire account was suspended after Google scanned all the files in his Google Drive, You're comparing iOS to the wrong entity when you compare it to Google instead of Android, but even your comparison to Google is faulty. Your link is about Google suspending an account for files shared publicly, not about Google scanning all the files in that account. Section V.B. of https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/ https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/ says that sharing those types of images publicly is also a violation of the iCloud TOS, and Apple has the right to do the same thing. The difference is that Apple will probably handle the customer complaint better, but that is an issue of customer service, not privacy.

GeekyBear 5y ago
> If you want your photos to upload in the background, iCloud Photos is your only choice on iOS. Nope. Background App Refresh has allowed any iOS app to update data between the server and client in the background for more than half a decade. Apple has discussed scanning photos uploaded to the iCloud Photos portion of their cloud service in the future, but nothing is scanned now. Google has been scanning everything in in their user's cloud accounts for the past decade. Also, given Google's reluctance to pay human beings to supervise decisions made by their algorithms, I have zero doubt that Google is turning in users when they have a single false positive.
- lern_too_spel 5y ago
  Background App Refresh was added in 2019. How did that more than half a decade pass in two years? You're right though, iOS is not as terrible as it used to be. For many years, Apple crippled other background sync services relative to its own, and it continues to cripple other services relative to its own on iOS. All the other privacy-invading criticisms remain, making iOS an awful choice for privacy. I still don't know why you're comparing iOS to Google. As I've already explained, that is the wrong comparison. I can use my own services on Android. Apple is planning to scan photos in iCloud (and already does in mail) and only hasn't because their services are still so basic, so it is just as bad as Google in that respect but only temporarily better due to incompetence. My own server does not scan and review photos and never will.
  - GeekyBear 5y ago
    Background App Refresh was added in iOS 7 which launched 8 years ago. I guess I could have said almost a decade ago. So, again, Apple only discussed scanning the iCloud Photos portion of their cloud service some time in the future, but NOTHING is being scanned now. Google, on the other hand, has been scanning everything in your account for the past decade. Also, documents from the discovery phase of Google's various antitrust trials show that Google has literally pressured device makers to hide the privacy settings from users. Google also buys a copy of everybody's credit/debit card transaction data so they can spy on your real world purchases as much as they spy on your online life. A company with surveillance capitalism as it's business model, like Google, will always be motivated to violate user privacy as much as possible. I don't know why you're still trying to pretend that Google's cloud service is separate from Android while Apple's cloud service is not separate from iOS?
    - lern_too_spel 5y ago
      > So, again, Apple only discussed scanning the iCloud Photos portion of their cloud service some time in the future, but NOTHING is being scanned now. I acknowledged that. The point is that they admitted this is an oversight because they are already scanning iCloud Mail. Their intentions are exactly the same as Google's. They are merely less competent. Apple is also a surveillance capitalist, as I explained in my previous post, giving several examples. iOS even splits the privacy settings of Apple's apps from the privacy settings of all other apps to make it harder for users to control what little Apple lets them control. > Google also buys a copy of everybody's credit/debit card transaction data so they can spy on your real world purchases as much as they spy on your online life. Apple gets the exact same information for transactions completed with Apple Pay. Users have to opt in for Google to see this information. Once again, exactly the same. > I don't know why you're still trying to pretend that Google's cloud service is separate from Android while Apple's cloud service is not separate from iOS? I already explained why. I don't have to use Google services on Android. iOS ties me to Apple's privacy nightmare. I listed several other examples of Apple data collection on iOS that are unavoidable. Android, even in builds provided by Google, has none of those problems.