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She describes in the article how she was essentially raped. Can you explain how legalized prostitution would have helped her in that situation? Because it seems

She describes in the article how she was essentially raped. Can you explain how legalized prostitution would have helped her in that situation? Because it seems to me that there is no way the guy would have been convicted of rape. Furthermore, future johns would avoid her if they knew that she had filed charges against a previous customer. Having sex with men for money is inherently dangerous and I don't think legalization really makes it much safer.

jonathanstrange 5y ago
Why would the guy not have been convicted of rape if he raped her? You're making lots of assumptions to "show" how legalizing prostitution would not make it "much safer", but common-sense tells us that legalization is a good first step to making it a bit safer. In the Netherlands police and social workers sometimes protect the outdoor areas in which prostitutes work (e.g. car parks). Why would that not make their workplace safer? > future johns would avoid her if they knew that she had filed charges against a previous customer So maybe she wouldn't tell them. Obviously, legalization should also imply a certain protection of their identities (e.g. if they are witnesses in a trial).
- bjourne 5y ago
  I think you don't know how the justice system operates if you think every charge of rape leads to a conviction. In some jurisdictions prostitution is legal, such as Germany, but, afaik, that has not led to a higher number of johns being sentenced. The idea that legalization would somehow make prostitution seem to me to not be grounded in reality. More it seems like make believe for the customers: "It's not us clients making prostitutes unsafe, it's the damn police!" Social workers and police can of course make outdoor areas in which prostitutes work safer even if prostitution is not legalized. So that is not an argument in favor of legalization.
  - jonathanstrange 5y ago
    I don't think every rape charge leads to conviction, though. Moreover, saying that clients make prostitution unsafe is like saying that drivers make the roads unsafe. What's the point of that? I didn't present an argument for the legalization of prostitution. In my opinion, there is no need for an argument since it's completely obvious to any normal human being that it is not a crime. Why on earth would selling sex for money be crime? Is it the sex that makes it a crime? What's wrong with sex? There is a lot of hypocrisy in the discussion of this question, though. People frequently confound other crimes with prostitution that already are crimes and would continue to be crimes after legalization such as human trafficking, rape, coercion, sexual assault, etc. Besides, it is completely obvious that legalization improves the working conditions of prostitutes. Contrary to what you state, the police cannot make outdoor areas where sex workers work secure if prostitution is illegal, since the police is forced to persecute crimes. They'd have to arrest these sex workers. Consequently, these will conduct their business far away from the police, which is exactly what makes their work particularly insecure when it is illegal. This is just one issue. There are many other reasons why illegal activities are generally less secure than the same activities when they are legal. Illegality attracts all kinds of shady people you can avoid if you are allowed to go legit. That's not even a controversial thesis.
    - bjourne 5y ago
      You are using phrases such as "completely obvious", "common-sense", and "not controversial" where they aren't warranted. What is obvious to you may not be obvious to others. In Europe, laws around prostitution varies a lot. In some countries buying and selling sex is legal, in some only buying sex is illegal, and in others prostitution is completely forbidden. There appears to be no correlation between prostitutes' working conditions and the legality of prostitution. In Germany prostitution is legal, yet a massive number of women are trafficked from Eastern European countries to Germany, ostensibly because they are willing to sell sex cheaper than German women. Yes, police and social workers can make outdoor areas safer whether or not prostitution is legalized. That's a false dichotomy.
      - jonathanstrange 5y ago
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
"Furthermore, future johns would avoid her if they knew that she had filed charges against a previous customer." That's the point, you don't want rapey Johns as your customers.
tcskeptic 5y ago
Legalization would make it much easier for escorts to coordinate on john screening. See for example the research done by Cunningham/Deangelo/Tripp on the effect of Craigslist shutting down their Erotic Services section. And that paper wasn't even on legalization, just a small piece of normalization that allowed coordination. There is also a paper by Cunningham on the accidental legalization of indoor prostitution in Rhode Island and its effect on crime and violence. Fascinating stuff.

jonathanstrange 5y ago

Why would the guy not have been convicted of rape if he raped her? You're making lots of assumptions to "show" how legalizing prostitution would not make it "much safer", but common-sense tells us that legalization is a good first step to making it a bit safer. In the Netherlands police and social workers sometimes protect the outdoor areas in which prostitutes work (e.g. car parks). Why would that not make their workplace safer? > future johns would avoid her if they knew that she had filed charges against a previous customer So maybe she wouldn't tell them. Obviously, legalization should also imply a certain protection of their identities (e.g. if they are witnesses in a trial).

bjourne 5y ago
I think you don't know how the justice system operates if you think every charge of rape leads to a conviction. In some jurisdictions prostitution is legal, such as Germany, but, afaik, that has not led to a higher number of johns being sentenced. The idea that legalization would somehow make prostitution seem to me to not be grounded in reality. More it seems like make believe for the customers: "It's not us clients making prostitutes unsafe, it's the damn police!" Social workers and police can of course make outdoor areas in which prostitutes work safer even if prostitution is not legalized. So that is not an argument in favor of legalization.
- jonathanstrange 5y ago
  I don't think every rape charge leads to conviction, though. Moreover, saying that clients make prostitution unsafe is like saying that drivers make the roads unsafe. What's the point of that? I didn't present an argument for the legalization of prostitution. In my opinion, there is no need for an argument since it's completely obvious to any normal human being that it is not a crime. Why on earth would selling sex for money be crime? Is it the sex that makes it a crime? What's wrong with sex? There is a lot of hypocrisy in the discussion of this question, though. People frequently confound other crimes with prostitution that already are crimes and would continue to be crimes after legalization such as human trafficking, rape, coercion, sexual assault, etc. Besides, it is completely obvious that legalization improves the working conditions of prostitutes. Contrary to what you state, the police cannot make outdoor areas where sex workers work secure if prostitution is illegal, since the police is forced to persecute crimes. They'd have to arrest these sex workers. Consequently, these will conduct their business far away from the police, which is exactly what makes their work particularly insecure when it is illegal. This is just one issue. There are many other reasons why illegal activities are generally less secure than the same activities when they are legal. Illegality attracts all kinds of shady people you can avoid if you are allowed to go legit. That's not even a controversial thesis.
  - bjourne 5y ago
    You are using phrases such as "completely obvious", "common-sense", and "not controversial" where they aren't warranted. What is obvious to you may not be obvious to others. In Europe, laws around prostitution varies a lot. In some countries buying and selling sex is legal, in some only buying sex is illegal, and in others prostitution is completely forbidden. There appears to be no correlation between prostitutes' working conditions and the legality of prostitution. In Germany prostitution is legal, yet a massive number of women are trafficked from Eastern European countries to Germany, ostensibly because they are willing to sell sex cheaper than German women. Yes, police and social workers can make outdoor areas safer whether or not prostitution is legalized. That's a false dichotomy.
    - jonathanstrange 5y ago

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

"Furthermore, future johns would avoid her if they knew that she had filed charges against a previous customer." That's the point, you don't want rapey Johns as your customers.

tcskeptic 5y ago

Legalization would make it much easier for escorts to coordinate on john screening. See for example the research done by Cunningham/Deangelo/Tripp on the effect of Craigslist shutting down their Erotic Services section. And that paper wasn't even on legalization, just a small piece of normalization that allowed coordination. There is also a paper by Cunningham on the accidental legalization of indoor prostitution in Rhode Island and its effect on crime and violence. Fascinating stuff.