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While I concur that not watching TV is a decent solution, please don't insult the population. Is mainstream content dumbed down? Certainly. Should people fin

While I concur that not watching TV is a decent solution, please don't insult the population. Is mainstream content dumbed down? Certainly. Should people find a way to entertain themselves without passive consumption? Absolutely. But let's not get on a high horse.

vidar 15y ago
I think he is rather downplaying the problem, horse or no horse.
danilocampos 15y ago
You don't see the entropy I've described? What, exactly, is "insulting" about the observation? I didn't grow up around much money. We weren't poor, because my mom worked her ass off. But most people around me were. They reproduce endlessly, these poor, because poverty, religion and ignorance of birth control are all best friends. Each successive generation ends up just a little more screwed than the last, as pregnancies roll into the mid-teen years, and generations start stacking. Women in their 30's, grandmothers. Financial literacy isn't taught in schools – schools, which, thanks to all this reproduction, are packed to the gills with students who don't focus all that well because they have miserable home lives. They don't learn how to learn. They grow up, work way more jobs than any human being should have to bear at once, entirely robbed of the time needed to broaden their mind and their skills. And this is if they're lucky, and didn't get sucked into gang violence or drug abuse. In aggregate? The population gets dumber because what other outcome can there be from this reality? This is nothing to do with being on a high horse. This is observing that most TV is shit because so much of the population that exists to consume it hasn't had the opportunities to desire anything better.
- wdewind 15y ago
  Citation needed.
  - danilocampos 15y ago
    c.f. My entire childhood.
    - starwed 15y ago
      God, man, do you really think teenage pregnancy amongst the poor is a new problem?
      - danilocampos 15y ago
        Of course not. That's the whole point: it's an ongoing, cascading issue. The longer humanity exists, the better our medicine, the more effective our agriculture, the more poverty allows the population to boom without solving the larger problems of what to do for all these new humans once they arrive in much less than ideal circumstances. As time goes on, more and more people exist with fewer and fewer opportunities to access and leverage useful skills, decreasing the average effectiveness of the population overall. It's all terribly Malthusian, I know – I look forward to a Dwarf Wheat-esque event that's beyond our ability to see right now.
        starwed 15y ago
        >Of course not. Then you got carried away with your rhetoric earlier: >Each successive generation ends up just a little more screwed than the last, as pregnancies roll into the mid-teen years, and generations start stacking. Women in their 30's, grandmothers.
- Steko 15y ago
  Most TV is shit because most of all content is shit. Most movies are shit. Most novels are shit. Most one act plays are shit. Most music is shit. Most websites are shit. Most HN submissions are shit and let's not even get into comments. OTOH there's a lot of tv that is great, and I say that as someone who cancelled his cable almost 2 years ago. Some of this is available in other formats. "Saving" people $50 a month telling them to cancel cable tv and torrent everything they want isn't going to save the underclass. Yes get off the high horse.
  - danilocampos 15y ago
    There's a difference between bad and empty. Even "bad" storytelling can require historical context or reasonable attention span to consume. On the other hand, celebrity reporting and the rise of reality TV require absolutely no mental commitment or understanding of anything outside of what is immediately presented. I assert that, as the number of people whose economic circumstances prevent any sort of useful education grows, demand for empty content grows accordingly. There just won't be enough people with enough mental furniture to make use of anything more sophisticated.
    - ksgant 15y ago
      So? Who are we to say that people who want to watch Celebrity Apprentice or some celebrity reporting are watching the wrong type of programming and you are watching the right type of programming? Or even saying that no programming at all is what we should strive for? This indeed is a "high horse" attitude. I guarantee you that whatever you do in your leisure time I can find fault with also. Of course, you won't agree with my opinions at all, but it still doesn't take away from my point. Which is that it's easy to point the finger and say someone is wrong for doing something. And make not mistake, you are saying that people that watch "empty" television are wrong. And in the long run, what does it matter? We'll all on a path to oblivion anyway. If everyone stopped doing what they're doing at the very second and followed your way of thinking, it still won't stave off the inevitable. Time will devour us all, so it really doesn't matter if someone wishes to watch Jersey Shore instead of...well...instead of whatever it is you do personally.
- Jach 15y ago
  Were you a fan of Idiocracy?
- Steko 15y ago
  "You don't see the entropy I've described?" "They reproduce endlessly, these poor, because poverty, religion and ignorance of birth control are all best friends. Each successive generation ends up just a little more screwed than the last, as pregnancies roll into the mid-teen years, and generations start stacking. Women in their 30's, grandmothers." No I don't see the same trends you do. The birth rate in African Americans has dropped to near replacement levels over the last 15 years. Teen pregnancy rates have falled over the last 15 years. Entropy is not the correct word to describe this and tv has nothing to do with it.
  - danilocampos 15y ago
    >tv has nothing to do with it. ...k? I'm making the case for vapid content on television being symptomatic of declining intelligence/skills. It's not causal. As to African Americans, well, okay. But my experience surrounds Latinos. In Latino culture, we've got Catholicism encouraging as much reproduction as possible while declaring contraception sinful. There's also a lot of cultural misogyny, which entitles men to take what they want, while robbing women of the agency necessary to assert their own needs. (I was spared all of this because my mom is gay. Who knows how many siblings I'd have otherwise) I don't really see a way out of that for several more generations at least. And I'm not terribly surprised you don't see those trends – statistically, if you're on Hacker News, you're very unlikely to have had an upbringing where you got to see any of this firsthand. And that's the point.
    - mmcdan 15y ago
      I don't think mainstream tv content is" dumbed-down" because the poor are getting more ignorant, and the only thing they'll understand is American Idol. It's 1) consuming content passively is the most enjoyable thing to do after long hours of soul-sucking work(escapism),2) Living vicariously through others via a rags-to-riches story(American Idol) gives a misguided and fleeting sense of hope(like lotto tickets), and 3)Learning about other people's problems(eg international news) is depressing when you can't see passed your own troubles. If it helps my point, I alsilo grew up around this environment.
    - Prisen 15y ago
mhd 15y ago
Never mind that "passive" is a rather vague term here and that we're posting this on a news aggregator site. There's certainly no destrier in the room.
wakeup 15y ago
Fuck the population. I think most people fail really hard at being decent. It's not an insult. Its self critique.

vidar 15y ago

I think he is rather downplaying the problem, horse or no horse.

danilocampos 15y ago

You don't see the entropy I've described? What, exactly, is "insulting" about the observation? I didn't grow up around much money. We weren't poor, because my mom worked her ass off. But most people around me were. They reproduce endlessly, these poor, because poverty, religion and ignorance of birth control are all best friends. Each successive generation ends up just a little more screwed than the last, as pregnancies roll into the mid-teen years, and generations start stacking. Women in their 30's, grandmothers. Financial literacy isn't taught in schools – schools, which, thanks to all this reproduction, are packed to the gills with students who don't focus all that well because they have miserable home lives. They don't learn how to learn. They grow up, work way more jobs than any human being should have to bear at once, entirely robbed of the time needed to broaden their mind and their skills. And this is if they're lucky, and didn't get sucked into gang violence or drug abuse. In aggregate? The population gets dumber because what other outcome can there be from this reality? This is nothing to do with being on a high horse. This is observing that most TV is shit because so much of the population that exists to consume it hasn't had the opportunities to desire anything better.

wdewind 15y ago
Citation needed.
- danilocampos 15y ago
  c.f. My entire childhood.
  - starwed 15y ago
    God, man, do you really think teenage pregnancy amongst the poor is a new problem?
    - danilocampos 15y ago
      Of course not. That's the whole point: it's an ongoing, cascading issue. The longer humanity exists, the better our medicine, the more effective our agriculture, the more poverty allows the population to boom without solving the larger problems of what to do for all these new humans once they arrive in much less than ideal circumstances. As time goes on, more and more people exist with fewer and fewer opportunities to access and leverage useful skills, decreasing the average effectiveness of the population overall. It's all terribly Malthusian, I know – I look forward to a Dwarf Wheat-esque event that's beyond our ability to see right now.
      - starwed 15y ago
        >Of course not. Then you got carried away with your rhetoric earlier: >Each successive generation ends up just a little more screwed than the last, as pregnancies roll into the mid-teen years, and generations start stacking. Women in their 30's, grandmothers.
Steko 15y ago
Most TV is shit because most of all content is shit. Most movies are shit. Most novels are shit. Most one act plays are shit. Most music is shit. Most websites are shit. Most HN submissions are shit and let's not even get into comments. OTOH there's a lot of tv that is great, and I say that as someone who cancelled his cable almost 2 years ago. Some of this is available in other formats. "Saving" people $50 a month telling them to cancel cable tv and torrent everything they want isn't going to save the underclass. Yes get off the high horse.
- danilocampos 15y ago
  There's a difference between bad and empty. Even "bad" storytelling can require historical context or reasonable attention span to consume. On the other hand, celebrity reporting and the rise of reality TV require absolutely no mental commitment or understanding of anything outside of what is immediately presented. I assert that, as the number of people whose economic circumstances prevent any sort of useful education grows, demand for empty content grows accordingly. There just won't be enough people with enough mental furniture to make use of anything more sophisticated.
  - ksgant 15y ago
    So? Who are we to say that people who want to watch Celebrity Apprentice or some celebrity reporting are watching the wrong type of programming and you are watching the right type of programming? Or even saying that no programming at all is what we should strive for? This indeed is a "high horse" attitude. I guarantee you that whatever you do in your leisure time I can find fault with also. Of course, you won't agree with my opinions at all, but it still doesn't take away from my point. Which is that it's easy to point the finger and say someone is wrong for doing something. And make not mistake, you are saying that people that watch "empty" television are wrong. And in the long run, what does it matter? We'll all on a path to oblivion anyway. If everyone stopped doing what they're doing at the very second and followed your way of thinking, it still won't stave off the inevitable. Time will devour us all, so it really doesn't matter if someone wishes to watch Jersey Shore instead of...well...instead of whatever it is you do personally.
Jach 15y ago
Were you a fan of Idiocracy?
Steko 15y ago
"You don't see the entropy I've described?" "They reproduce endlessly, these poor, because poverty, religion and ignorance of birth control are all best friends. Each successive generation ends up just a little more screwed than the last, as pregnancies roll into the mid-teen years, and generations start stacking. Women in their 30's, grandmothers." No I don't see the same trends you do. The birth rate in African Americans has dropped to near replacement levels over the last 15 years. Teen pregnancy rates have falled over the last 15 years. Entropy is not the correct word to describe this and tv has nothing to do with it.
- danilocampos 15y ago
  >tv has nothing to do with it. ...k? I'm making the case for vapid content on television being symptomatic of declining intelligence/skills. It's not causal. As to African Americans, well, okay. But my experience surrounds Latinos. In Latino culture, we've got Catholicism encouraging as much reproduction as possible while declaring contraception sinful. There's also a lot of cultural misogyny, which entitles men to take what they want, while robbing women of the agency necessary to assert their own needs. (I was spared all of this because my mom is gay. Who knows how many siblings I'd have otherwise) I don't really see a way out of that for several more generations at least. And I'm not terribly surprised you don't see those trends – statistically, if you're on Hacker News, you're very unlikely to have had an upbringing where you got to see any of this firsthand. And that's the point.
  - mmcdan 15y ago
    I don't think mainstream tv content is" dumbed-down" because the poor are getting more ignorant, and the only thing they'll understand is American Idol. It's 1) consuming content passively is the most enjoyable thing to do after long hours of soul-sucking work(escapism),2) Living vicariously through others via a rags-to-riches story(American Idol) gives a misguided and fleeting sense of hope(like lotto tickets), and 3)Learning about other people's problems(eg international news) is depressing when you can't see passed your own troubles. If it helps my point, I alsilo grew up around this environment.
  - Prisen 15y ago

mhd 15y ago

Never mind that "passive" is a rather vague term here and that we're posting this on a news aggregator site. There's certainly no destrier in the room.

wakeup 15y ago

Fuck the population. I think most people fail really hard at being decent. It's not an insult. Its self critique.