4 ms·

Have you ever worked in a warehouse? The last thing I wanted at 18 was not being able to earn 50 to 100% more an hour. Also what your proposing is what the co

by _3u10 5y ago

Have you ever worked in a warehouse? The last thing I wanted at 18 was not being able to earn 50 to 100% more an hour. Also what your proposing is what the company did to everyone who didn’t work overtime but instead focused on working more than part time hours, so they would qualify for full time hours and thus benefits. Work 2 months at 40 hrs per week? Great, have a month with no hours. Voila, now after 3 months your average hours per week is part time. Yeah this was a union shop too, so don’t want to hear any nonsense from anyone about how great things would be if a union was skimming an additional 10% off the workers pay. I wish people who weren’t doing the work would fuck right off with interfering with other peoples working relationships. Unions, mgmt, govt, workers comp, it’s all fucked and skims massively off people doing the work and towards the lifers. Sorry if this comes off as a personal attack, but it brings me back to that life and the struggles everyone is going through. You feel fucked from every direction at a warehouse.

KptMarchewa 5y ago
>they would qualify for full time hours and thus benefits. This is not how stuff works in Poland. There's no difference between full-time and part-time benefits, instead, there's a difference between employment contract (UoP) contracting (UZ, UoD) and self-employment.
- Symbiote 5y ago
  There are also legal limits on working time, although it's not clear to me which would apply to a warehouse worker. https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/observatories/emcc/erm/legislation/poland-working-time-flexibility https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/observatories/emcc/erm/legis...
  - KptMarchewa 5y ago
    Take a look at "Work involving continuity of operation" part. Amazon warehouses have 4x10h system AFAIK.
  - gambiting 5y ago
    You can legally opt out of the working time limits in most professions, except for limited few like truck drivers. I'm yet to see an employment contract that doesn't have a clause for the opt out. I work as a programmer contracted for 37.5h/week but of course there's a clause in my contract to say I agree to work more "if needed"(never had to in my 7 years of work here, but still).
    - KptMarchewa 5y ago
      Overtime on UoP is permitted, but regulated. You can't do over some limit (like 400 hours yearly); except if you're a doctor.
- _3u10 5y ago
  Interesting. Here it's company to company, you can have benefits part time, but most don't offer it as most part time jobs are low wage. (Less likely to have bennies)
  - KptMarchewa 5y ago
    Also, "benefits" mean very little at that level in Poland, since healthcare is state run - and shit, but equally shit. Private healthcare is usually diagnostics only (also, dentistry and some "luxury" operations like LASIK).
pfr1054 5y ago
Check your privilege. You got 50 to 100% more an hour for working overtime BECAUSE it was a union shop. Yes the union that you resent for 'skimming' was getting you a way more than 10% bump in every paycheck. If it wasn't a union shop, then you would have been working overtime at the same hourly rate as regular hours. This is what GP objected to - if there's no incentive for management not to demand excessive overtime, they do it all the time and burn people out. If there are overtime limits or statutory pay increases for overtime, they manage their resources properly.
- hirako2000 5y ago
  Well that's what the union would say. We did this. You are welcome. His point is that they are interfering with employer/employees relationship, and skim a percentage. One could argue the unions aren't getting the best deals in the long run, and skim a percentage on top. The amount of corruption those involved get tempted to participate in is significant, hard to know what we don't know. What I observe is that more prestigious jobs get away without unions getting in the way. In tech, there is generally a distrust in political factions forming to supposedly fight for employees benefits. Perhaps well paid workers figured there is no need for fighting against well paying employers, for discrete reasons. Amazon warehouse employees? If it's so bad, leave. It's just feeding the beast to accept the now well known conditions there.
  - simiones 5y ago
    > Amazon warehouse employees? If it's so bad, leave. It's just feeding the beast to accept the now well known conditions there. Unfortunately, the current economic system comes with an air-tight protection from such dangerous ideas: if you don't work, you can't live. So, unless there is some place that deigns to offer better conditions than Amazon warehouses, your choices are to work in these conditions or just die. > What I observe is that more prestigious jobs get away without unions getting in the way. In tech, there is generally a distrust in political factions forming to supposedly fight for employees benefits. This happens more in newer industries, where unions are more actively discouraged from the get go. Older prestigious professions do tend to have unions, at least in my country. Dctors have unions. Actors and screen writers have unions. Magistrates (at least those working for the state - prosecutors, judges, public defenders) have unions. I think civil engineering is not unionized, but that is more of an exception. Even more, some areas in tech are some of the most disfunctional working environments around, and unionization is becoming a hot topic. Look at the recent Activision Blizzard or Ubisoft or Riot Games scandals.
Shacklz 5y ago
Unions are for sure not the silver bullet that will solve all problems, but just look at the different working conditions across countries and you will see that generally speaking, unions do lead to better working conditions and overall well-being of the employees. After all, that's literally their purpose and why they exist in the first place. > I wish people who weren’t doing the work would fuck right off with interfering with other peoples working relationships. [..] You feel fucked from every direction at a warehouse. It's precisely the POINT to interfere, because they cannot fend for themselves. It is literally the reason why unions were invented and why governments of pretty much all advanced nations choose to regulate work: There will always be those who have no choice but to accept the work that is given to them, and unless someone fends for them, they will be exploited. Try to keep your own emotions out of it, and look at the raw numbers & statistics across countries. The patterns are evidently clear.

by _3u10 5y ago

KptMarchewa 5y ago

>they would qualify for full time hours and thus benefits. This is not how stuff works in Poland. There's no difference between full-time and part-time benefits, instead, there's a difference between employment contract (UoP) contracting (UZ, UoD) and self-employment.

Symbiote 5y ago
There are also legal limits on working time, although it's not clear to me which would apply to a warehouse worker. https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/observatories/emcc/erm/legislation/poland-working-time-flexibility https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/observatories/emcc/erm/legis...
- KptMarchewa 5y ago
  Take a look at "Work involving continuity of operation" part. Amazon warehouses have 4x10h system AFAIK.
- gambiting 5y ago
  You can legally opt out of the working time limits in most professions, except for limited few like truck drivers. I'm yet to see an employment contract that doesn't have a clause for the opt out. I work as a programmer contracted for 37.5h/week but of course there's a clause in my contract to say I agree to work more "if needed"(never had to in my 7 years of work here, but still).
  - KptMarchewa 5y ago
    Overtime on UoP is permitted, but regulated. You can't do over some limit (like 400 hours yearly); except if you're a doctor.
_3u10 5y ago
Interesting. Here it's company to company, you can have benefits part time, but most don't offer it as most part time jobs are low wage. (Less likely to have bennies)
- KptMarchewa 5y ago
  Also, "benefits" mean very little at that level in Poland, since healthcare is state run - and shit, but equally shit. Private healthcare is usually diagnostics only (also, dentistry and some "luxury" operations like LASIK).

pfr1054 5y ago

Check your privilege. You got 50 to 100% more an hour for working overtime BECAUSE it was a union shop. Yes the union that you resent for 'skimming' was getting you a way more than 10% bump in every paycheck. If it wasn't a union shop, then you would have been working overtime at the same hourly rate as regular hours. This is what GP objected to - if there's no incentive for management not to demand excessive overtime, they do it all the time and burn people out. If there are overtime limits or statutory pay increases for overtime, they manage their resources properly.

hirako2000 5y ago
Well that's what the union would say. We did this. You are welcome. His point is that they are interfering with employer/employees relationship, and skim a percentage. One could argue the unions aren't getting the best deals in the long run, and skim a percentage on top. The amount of corruption those involved get tempted to participate in is significant, hard to know what we don't know. What I observe is that more prestigious jobs get away without unions getting in the way. In tech, there is generally a distrust in political factions forming to supposedly fight for employees benefits. Perhaps well paid workers figured there is no need for fighting against well paying employers, for discrete reasons. Amazon warehouse employees? If it's so bad, leave. It's just feeding the beast to accept the now well known conditions there.
- simiones 5y ago
  > Amazon warehouse employees? If it's so bad, leave. It's just feeding the beast to accept the now well known conditions there. Unfortunately, the current economic system comes with an air-tight protection from such dangerous ideas: if you don't work, you can't live. So, unless there is some place that deigns to offer better conditions than Amazon warehouses, your choices are to work in these conditions or just die. > What I observe is that more prestigious jobs get away without unions getting in the way. In tech, there is generally a distrust in political factions forming to supposedly fight for employees benefits. This happens more in newer industries, where unions are more actively discouraged from the get go. Older prestigious professions do tend to have unions, at least in my country. Dctors have unions. Actors and screen writers have unions. Magistrates (at least those working for the state - prosecutors, judges, public defenders) have unions. I think civil engineering is not unionized, but that is more of an exception. Even more, some areas in tech are some of the most disfunctional working environments around, and unionization is becoming a hot topic. Look at the recent Activision Blizzard or Ubisoft or Riot Games scandals.

Shacklz 5y ago

Unions are for sure not the silver bullet that will solve all problems, but just look at the different working conditions across countries and you will see that generally speaking, unions do lead to better working conditions and overall well-being of the employees. After all, that's literally their purpose and why they exist in the first place. > I wish people who weren’t doing the work would fuck right off with interfering with other peoples working relationships. [..] You feel fucked from every direction at a warehouse. It's precisely the POINT to interfere, because they cannot fend for themselves. It is literally the reason why unions were invented and why governments of pretty much all advanced nations choose to regulate work: There will always be those who have no choice but to accept the work that is given to them, and unless someone fends for them, they will be exploited. Try to keep your own emotions out of it, and look at the raw numbers & statistics across countries. The patterns are evidently clear.