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Wow, they installed Amazon smart speaker devices and didn't delete the data nor make changes to collection in settings and then is surprised that it exist.

piva00 5y ago
Why do you believe a common user/customer of Amazon's Alexa would know about any of that?
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  Ignorance only gets you so far. It takes a descent amount of ignorance to not know.
  - piva00 5y ago
    No, ignorance is ingrained. You are very likely ignorant about a lot of non-tech (or work) related stuff. It's impossible to be reasonably informed about every aspect of things in your life. Ignorance about tech is real, normal mainstream users suffer from it and victim-blaming is a non-solution. People, normal general people, aren't yet understanding privacy implications and the ways you can control those on the products they use. Mass adoption of these technologies will, by default, imply that a large parcel of the customer base is ignorant about its potentially harmful (or morally disputed) sides. Your point of view is completely unempathetic, being ignorant about tech is the default state in our world, expecting that the solution to dark patterns designed to confuse normal people is to blame the ignorant victims is ultimately pointless.
    - encryptluks2 5y ago
      It isn't just an ignorance of tech, it is an ignorance to things in general. It would be like bringing a stranger into your house where you also have children. Ignorance with tech isn't just an issue with people being ignorant to technology, but overly naive and ignorant in general. Yes, they can claim ignorance but if you bring a stranger into your house and something happens to your child I don't think a judge is going to be all that sympathetic and say... oh, poor you, how could you have known that is a bad idea?!? If you want to enable that, then that is on you but it simply isn't based in reality where that would be a good idea. Buying tech and bringing it into your house that listens to you and is connected to the Internet, and then acting surprised to find out that they keep recordings is on the same level of ignorance. So, yes if you are the type to bring strangers into your house and are surprised when something bad happens, then I can see how you'd be sympathetic.
      - piva00 5y ago
        Your analogy completely breaks down when you, again, fly past the empathetic and pragmatic part of "how things actually are" to "how I think things should be". Again, people aren't educated about the risks of bringing a tech item into their daily lives, you are taught since a kid to be aware and cautious of strangers. The ignorance is ingrained because our daily/life education hasn't caught up to the reality. Diminishing that reality to fit into your worldview filled with judgment helps nothing, doesn't help to educate anyone and doesn't help the issue at hand. You're basically soap-boxing, it's quite exhausting to be honest.

piva00 5y ago

Why do you believe a common user/customer of Amazon's Alexa would know about any of that?

encryptluks2 5y ago
Ignorance only gets you so far. It takes a descent amount of ignorance to not know.
- piva00 5y ago
  No, ignorance is ingrained. You are very likely ignorant about a lot of non-tech (or work) related stuff. It's impossible to be reasonably informed about every aspect of things in your life. Ignorance about tech is real, normal mainstream users suffer from it and victim-blaming is a non-solution. People, normal general people, aren't yet understanding privacy implications and the ways you can control those on the products they use. Mass adoption of these technologies will, by default, imply that a large parcel of the customer base is ignorant about its potentially harmful (or morally disputed) sides. Your point of view is completely unempathetic, being ignorant about tech is the default state in our world, expecting that the solution to dark patterns designed to confuse normal people is to blame the ignorant victims is ultimately pointless.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    It isn't just an ignorance of tech, it is an ignorance to things in general. It would be like bringing a stranger into your house where you also have children. Ignorance with tech isn't just an issue with people being ignorant to technology, but overly naive and ignorant in general. Yes, they can claim ignorance but if you bring a stranger into your house and something happens to your child I don't think a judge is going to be all that sympathetic and say... oh, poor you, how could you have known that is a bad idea?!? If you want to enable that, then that is on you but it simply isn't based in reality where that would be a good idea. Buying tech and bringing it into your house that listens to you and is connected to the Internet, and then acting surprised to find out that they keep recordings is on the same level of ignorance. So, yes if you are the type to bring strangers into your house and are surprised when something bad happens, then I can see how you'd be sympathetic.
    - piva00 5y ago
      Your analogy completely breaks down when you, again, fly past the empathetic and pragmatic part of "how things actually are" to "how I think things should be". Again, people aren't educated about the risks of bringing a tech item into their daily lives, you are taught since a kid to be aware and cautious of strangers. The ignorance is ingrained because our daily/life education hasn't caught up to the reality. Diminishing that reality to fit into your worldview filled with judgment helps nothing, doesn't help to educate anyone and doesn't help the issue at hand. You're basically soap-boxing, it's quite exhausting to be honest.