7 ms·

Her experience is not a good indicator or whether it should be legal or not . She is an exception even as an escort, and also high end escort work she describes

Her experience is not a good indicator or whether it should be legal or not . She is an exception even as an escort, and also high end escort work she describes here is very very different from the run on the mill prostitution. Her strategy of avoiding trouble by keeping price higher even if lower frequency engagements may not be feasible for many, they may be unable to get clients at higher price points and like any biz pressure to generate revenue is immense.

2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
One of the arguments of legalisation/decriminalisation/whatever you want to call it is that it brings it out from being underground and anyone can call law enforcement. However given the relationship with law enforcement in the US I’m not sure how well that would work.
c21h30o2 5y ago
The question of whether it's good and wholesome is orthogonal to the question of whether society should punish those who do it. Scenario A: Resourceful, successful, happy. Should she be forced to accept dangerous working conditions and live under the constant threat of eviction, imprisonment, harassment and stigma? Why? What's the argument in favor of making her life difficult? Scenario B: Physical or mental disability, unattractive, can't afford to refuse clients even though they make her unsafe, doesn't have any other way to pay for rent, food, meds and diapers. Should she be prevented from going to the police when someone beats, rapes or robs her? Should she be prevented from organizing with her friends for mutual protection? Should she be prevented from advertising online and instead forced onto the streets? Again, why? What's the argument in favor of making her life even more difficult?
- manquer 5y ago
  The point is her experience is niche and unique, it is not indicative of how the industry at large actually operates so making any judgements would not be meaningful as OP was doing.
  - KaiserPro 5y ago
    but the issue the article points out that she as an escort has no access to law, should something go wrong. If an in-house hair dresser was assaulted/robbed/stolen from, they would be able to report it to the police. There would be a strong chance (well as high as any other crime) that it would be punished. There would also be an opportunity to use/create a verification scheme for clients, but also ask for insurance/tax/qualifications for the hair dresser. This is what operating in a "decriminalized" world looks like. You don't get harassed by the law, but they wont help you either. Ideally we would have a world where sex work is legally allowed (so long as its not coerced) and allow those workers to form companies, hire security, use payment systems, have vetting functions. All of the services that would make life much less precarious. I know that in the people I have encountered in the sex worker world (who are related but not the same as escorts) are very against "legalisation" as they fear it would lead to registers and no chance to limit or control anonymity. So unless the moral objections are sorted, I don't see any future in these changes.
    - denton-scratch 5y ago
      > hire security In the UK, being paid by a pro sex-worker for services in support of that work is a crime called "Living off immoral earnings", and it's treated quite a bit more seriously than prostitution. How do you tell whether the big guy in the car across the street is really just protection, or whether he's a pimp, taxing a harem of girls with threats of violence?
      - KaiserPro 5y ago
        more information on this: https://www.inbrief.co.uk/offences/living-off-immoral-earnings/ https://www.inbrief.co.uk/offences/living-off-immoral-earnin... Modern law has been complicated somewhat by a change in heart. There was an attempt at loosening the rules around prostitution(pre 2009), but they have subsequently been tightened a bit. In short its a mess. > really just protection, or whether he's a pimp, taxing a harem of girls with threats of violence? this is where I diverge from sex workers on my opinion on this. They are pushing for discrimination. But this doesn't solve the coercion/security hired help issue. The only practical way I can see it going away is by allowing sex workers to be fully legalised, as in form a company, have accounts, pay tax, be inspected by environmental health(or would it be CQC?). have three workers, but only pay tax for one? time for an inspection! There are risks, and the stigma will force people underground. Holland and germany _still_ have a people trafficking problem I suspect there are better ways, but unless it sex work can be done on the high street(well not literally), we will never truly over come the stigma, and subsequent exploitation of people.
- newsclues 5y ago
  Scenario B workers under legalization will lose their jobs/income. Marginalized workers in the cannabis industry got pushed out when Canada legalized cannabis.
  - celticninja 5y ago
    How do they lose their jobs? I get that a dealer who just sold weed now has to compete with legal alternatives or leave the sector. How so with sex work? You think the increased competition would put them out of work? What is a marginalized worker in the cannabis sector?
    - newsclues 5y ago
      Customers buying from black markets have less choice. If I want drugs, I buy the drugs the dealer is pushing. In a legal market for sex, a customer can be more selective, so the less desired workers will lose customers. When weed was legalized the bottom rung of the weed dealers, lost their market to stores who suddenly offered a better option to consumers. Marginalization in the cannabis dealer scene would be poor people who sell a bit of weed to make ends meet or cheap/free weed in exchange for dealing.
      - celticninja 5y ago
        I think you are over estimating a cross over between these customers. Cheap Mexican brick weed is still being sold because legal cannabis is pricing poorer users out of the legal market. Legal stores are employing people legitimately and paying taxes, so I don't mind if some dealers now have to quit or diversify. The more jobs we have in legal drugs the fewer required in the illegal drug trade. This is a net positive to society.
  - robrtsql 5y ago
    This is why most sex workers are specifically in favor of decriminalization and not 'legalization'.
    - 5y ago
danuker 5y ago
> like any biz pressure to generate revenue is immense. Whenever I think about consumer electronics, I think they are turning into status symbols more than tools providing utility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good

2muchcoffeeman 5y ago

One of the arguments of legalisation/decriminalisation/whatever you want to call it is that it brings it out from being underground and anyone can call law enforcement. However given the relationship with law enforcement in the US I’m not sure how well that would work.

c21h30o2 5y ago

The question of whether it's good and wholesome is orthogonal to the question of whether society should punish those who do it. Scenario A: Resourceful, successful, happy. Should she be forced to accept dangerous working conditions and live under the constant threat of eviction, imprisonment, harassment and stigma? Why? What's the argument in favor of making her life difficult? Scenario B: Physical or mental disability, unattractive, can't afford to refuse clients even though they make her unsafe, doesn't have any other way to pay for rent, food, meds and diapers. Should she be prevented from going to the police when someone beats, rapes or robs her? Should she be prevented from organizing with her friends for mutual protection? Should she be prevented from advertising online and instead forced onto the streets? Again, why? What's the argument in favor of making her life even more difficult?

manquer 5y ago
The point is her experience is niche and unique, it is not indicative of how the industry at large actually operates so making any judgements would not be meaningful as OP was doing.
- KaiserPro 5y ago
  but the issue the article points out that she as an escort has no access to law, should something go wrong. If an in-house hair dresser was assaulted/robbed/stolen from, they would be able to report it to the police. There would be a strong chance (well as high as any other crime) that it would be punished. There would also be an opportunity to use/create a verification scheme for clients, but also ask for insurance/tax/qualifications for the hair dresser. This is what operating in a "decriminalized" world looks like. You don't get harassed by the law, but they wont help you either. Ideally we would have a world where sex work is legally allowed (so long as its not coerced) and allow those workers to form companies, hire security, use payment systems, have vetting functions. All of the services that would make life much less precarious. I know that in the people I have encountered in the sex worker world (who are related but not the same as escorts) are very against "legalisation" as they fear it would lead to registers and no chance to limit or control anonymity. So unless the moral objections are sorted, I don't see any future in these changes.
  - denton-scratch 5y ago
    > hire security In the UK, being paid by a pro sex-worker for services in support of that work is a crime called "Living off immoral earnings", and it's treated quite a bit more seriously than prostitution. How do you tell whether the big guy in the car across the street is really just protection, or whether he's a pimp, taxing a harem of girls with threats of violence?
    - KaiserPro 5y ago
      more information on this: https://www.inbrief.co.uk/offences/living-off-immoral-earnings/ https://www.inbrief.co.uk/offences/living-off-immoral-earnin... Modern law has been complicated somewhat by a change in heart. There was an attempt at loosening the rules around prostitution(pre 2009), but they have subsequently been tightened a bit. In short its a mess. > really just protection, or whether he's a pimp, taxing a harem of girls with threats of violence? this is where I diverge from sex workers on my opinion on this. They are pushing for discrimination. But this doesn't solve the coercion/security hired help issue. The only practical way I can see it going away is by allowing sex workers to be fully legalised, as in form a company, have accounts, pay tax, be inspected by environmental health(or would it be CQC?). have three workers, but only pay tax for one? time for an inspection! There are risks, and the stigma will force people underground. Holland and germany _still_ have a people trafficking problem I suspect there are better ways, but unless it sex work can be done on the high street(well not literally), we will never truly over come the stigma, and subsequent exploitation of people.
newsclues 5y ago
Scenario B workers under legalization will lose their jobs/income. Marginalized workers in the cannabis industry got pushed out when Canada legalized cannabis.
- celticninja 5y ago
  How do they lose their jobs? I get that a dealer who just sold weed now has to compete with legal alternatives or leave the sector. How so with sex work? You think the increased competition would put them out of work? What is a marginalized worker in the cannabis sector?
  - newsclues 5y ago
    Customers buying from black markets have less choice. If I want drugs, I buy the drugs the dealer is pushing. In a legal market for sex, a customer can be more selective, so the less desired workers will lose customers. When weed was legalized the bottom rung of the weed dealers, lost their market to stores who suddenly offered a better option to consumers. Marginalization in the cannabis dealer scene would be poor people who sell a bit of weed to make ends meet or cheap/free weed in exchange for dealing.
    - celticninja 5y ago
      I think you are over estimating a cross over between these customers. Cheap Mexican brick weed is still being sold because legal cannabis is pricing poorer users out of the legal market. Legal stores are employing people legitimately and paying taxes, so I don't mind if some dealers now have to quit or diversify. The more jobs we have in legal drugs the fewer required in the illegal drug trade. This is a net positive to society.
- robrtsql 5y ago
  This is why most sex workers are specifically in favor of decriminalization and not 'legalization'.
  - 5y ago

danuker 5y ago

> like any biz pressure to generate revenue is immense. Whenever I think about consumer electronics, I think they are turning into status symbols more than tools providing utility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good