4 ms·

NFC-F + Felica is truly one of those technologies that could have really made a huge difference in the world (imagine a no-internet, no bank/middleman payment s

NFC-F + Felica is truly one of those technologies that could have really made a huge difference in the world (imagine a no-internet, no bank/middleman payment system in 3rd world countries) but got ruined because of Japan's Galapagos Syndrome. Had NTT & JREast looked from a global POV and worked with OEMs to reduce hardware & licensing cost we could have seen Suica working all over the world today.

rjzzleep 5y ago
I think it's more NTT and Sony. Every single Felica card in Japan is manufactured by Sony. Either way it doesn't matter. It actually is a shame, because most countries that did buy felica are dropping it because of licensing even though it's technically better than any of the competitors. Regardless of that Apple managed to get global felica into their phones since the iPhone 8. Googles japanese google pay is just a shim for Osaifu Keitai. At the end of the day they seem to be too busy reinventing android pay every couple of years instead of taking some lessons from Apple. This is as much Googles fault as it is Sonys and NTT.
- harpratap 5y ago
  Even for Apple, the most profitable smartphone OEM, it took them many years and so much engineering effort to make it work. They started with iPhone 7 JP edition, next their "Global NFC" iPhone X,8 series was pretty much a failure[1]. I can see why Android OEMs don't want to pursue providing solution to a technology that isn't widely adopted, is expensive to implement and has minimal user base [1] https://atadistance.net/2021/10/13/a-iphone-x-nfc-failure-story-for-the-user-and-for-apple/ https://atadistance.net/2021/10/13/a-iphone-x-nfc-failure-st...
  - rjzzleep 5y ago
    What are you talking about? So many incorrect statements and false statements in such a short comment with a post as reference that actually conflicts with what you said. iPhone 7 was successful. So was iPhone 8. iPhone X NFC failure was just that. An iPhone X NFC defect. They knew it was defective and they released it anyway. All the felica magic is in their secure element and they had it nailed down in iPhone 7 already. iPhone X NFC isn't just defective in Japan, it's defective globally. Another contributor to iPhone X's failure in Japan was the lack of TouchID. Also Android OEMs have had Felica support forever, but only in Japan and only using specific secure elements. The issue here is that Google kept telling everyone how HCF without SE is as secure as having a secure element and kept trying to push that narrative until they didn't. Pixel phones now have two secure elements, one comes with the NFC chipset they choose - usually from NXP-, and one is their own. Basically every bigger Android phone manufacturer nowadays has their own secure element. Oppo, Samsung, Google, Huawei. The most absurd is probably Samsung's Knox that trips when you unlock(iPhone works fine after resetting it even if you jailbreak it). And on top of that every countries NFC programming is region specific. Hongkong Knox can do Octopus, Taiwan Knox can do Easycard, Japan can do osaifu keitai(probably not stored in knox though). This is not entirely Googles fault, but they deserve a pretty huge share of the blame. At least for the fragmentation of the payment SE solutions. And again, they've had 3 or 4 iterations of Google Pay in the way.

rjzzleep 5y ago

I think it's more NTT and Sony. Every single Felica card in Japan is manufactured by Sony. Either way it doesn't matter. It actually is a shame, because most countries that did buy felica are dropping it because of licensing even though it's technically better than any of the competitors. Regardless of that Apple managed to get global felica into their phones since the iPhone 8. Googles japanese google pay is just a shim for Osaifu Keitai. At the end of the day they seem to be too busy reinventing android pay every couple of years instead of taking some lessons from Apple. This is as much Googles fault as it is Sonys and NTT.

harpratap 5y ago
Even for Apple, the most profitable smartphone OEM, it took them many years and so much engineering effort to make it work. They started with iPhone 7 JP edition, next their "Global NFC" iPhone X,8 series was pretty much a failure[1]. I can see why Android OEMs don't want to pursue providing solution to a technology that isn't widely adopted, is expensive to implement and has minimal user base [1] https://atadistance.net/2021/10/13/a-iphone-x-nfc-failure-story-for-the-user-and-for-apple/ https://atadistance.net/2021/10/13/a-iphone-x-nfc-failure-st...
- rjzzleep 5y ago
  What are you talking about? So many incorrect statements and false statements in such a short comment with a post as reference that actually conflicts with what you said. iPhone 7 was successful. So was iPhone 8. iPhone X NFC failure was just that. An iPhone X NFC defect. They knew it was defective and they released it anyway. All the felica magic is in their secure element and they had it nailed down in iPhone 7 already. iPhone X NFC isn't just defective in Japan, it's defective globally. Another contributor to iPhone X's failure in Japan was the lack of TouchID. Also Android OEMs have had Felica support forever, but only in Japan and only using specific secure elements. The issue here is that Google kept telling everyone how HCF without SE is as secure as having a secure element and kept trying to push that narrative until they didn't. Pixel phones now have two secure elements, one comes with the NFC chipset they choose - usually from NXP-, and one is their own. Basically every bigger Android phone manufacturer nowadays has their own secure element. Oppo, Samsung, Google, Huawei. The most absurd is probably Samsung's Knox that trips when you unlock(iPhone works fine after resetting it even if you jailbreak it). And on top of that every countries NFC programming is region specific. Hongkong Knox can do Octopus, Taiwan Knox can do Easycard, Japan can do osaifu keitai(probably not stored in knox though). This is not entirely Googles fault, but they deserve a pretty huge share of the blame. At least for the fragmentation of the payment SE solutions. And again, they've had 3 or 4 iterations of Google Pay in the way.