4 ms·

> No, it isn't. You're just wrong about that. > Now, it is true that there are different kinds of numbers in math, but each different kind of number is formall

> No, it isn't. You're just wrong about that. > Now, it is true that there are different kinds of numbers in math, but each different kind of number is formally defined. All of those definitions are interrelated, and collectively they define what it means to be a number. There is nothing informal about it. > though explaining why is much too long for an HN comment. I'm surprised you're still arguing here, basically from first principles and ad hoc arguments, as to whether there exists in current professional discourse a formal model for the concepts you want. You can just Name. The. Model. Imagine I said that a bacon McDonalds burger doesn't exist, and you decided to argue from internal and ad hoc reasonings as to whether McDonalds most assuredly has a bacon burger — when you could've just Named. The. Burger. You know, like the Bacon McDouble. Anyways, to be clear, "number" is an informal concept among mathematicians.

lisper 5y ago
If we were arguing about bacon burgers then I would not argue from first principles. I would just invite you to a restaurant and show you a bacon burger. You're right that there is no formal definition of "number" but there is a formal definition of "natural number" and "real number" and "imaginary number" and "complex number" and "rational number" and integers and quaternions and octonians, all of which are kinds of numbers even though their names don't contain the word "number"). All of those different kinds of formally defined numbers collectively are what a "number" is. If you want to call that informal, fine, but that seems to me like a pretty tiny garnish of informality on top of a mountain of formality.
- threatofrain 5y ago
  > If you want to call that informal, fine, but that seems to me like a pretty tiny garnish of informality on top of a mountain of formality. Perhaps you forgot, but you decided that this sin of sprinkling a tiny garnish of informality was so circular and awful that you had to stop reading right there, and provide paragraphs of explanation as to how "number" is a formal concept. If you really thought this was just a tiny garnish of informality atop a mountain of formalism, then I don't know why this is the point you had to stop reading to warn people that this work sucks.
  - lisper 5y ago
    Because it's not the informality of the definition that's the problem, it's the circularity.
- bawolff 5y ago
  If that's your definition of formal, then "thingy" is also a formal term in mathematics.

lisper 5y ago

If we were arguing about bacon burgers then I would not argue from first principles. I would just invite you to a restaurant and show you a bacon burger. You're right that there is no formal definition of "number" but there is a formal definition of "natural number" and "real number" and "imaginary number" and "complex number" and "rational number" and integers and quaternions and octonians, all of which are kinds of numbers even though their names don't contain the word "number"). All of those different kinds of formally defined numbers collectively are what a "number" is. If you want to call that informal, fine, but that seems to me like a pretty tiny garnish of informality on top of a mountain of formality.

threatofrain 5y ago
> If you want to call that informal, fine, but that seems to me like a pretty tiny garnish of informality on top of a mountain of formality. Perhaps you forgot, but you decided that this sin of sprinkling a tiny garnish of informality was so circular and awful that you had to stop reading right there, and provide paragraphs of explanation as to how "number" is a formal concept. If you really thought this was just a tiny garnish of informality atop a mountain of formalism, then I don't know why this is the point you had to stop reading to warn people that this work sucks.
- lisper 5y ago
  Because it's not the informality of the definition that's the problem, it's the circularity.
bawolff 5y ago
If that's your definition of formal, then "thingy" is also a formal term in mathematics.