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I hate histrionics, but I feel compelled to connect the dots here. Colleges charge more and more -- the growth rate is way above anything most of us would cons

I hate histrionics, but I feel compelled to connect the dots here. Colleges charge more and more -- the growth rate is way above anything most of us would consider reasonable. Why? Because the feds guarantee loans for kids attending. That is, the person directly paying is not the person receiving the benefit. In fact, for many people the goal is to have the feds completely pay for education using loans, thereby giving everybody the chance to make an easy trade: take on some debt which you will have to pay many decades from now, and in return you get a few years of attending a super cool school, learning incredible stuff, and making new friends. Except, you can never default on these loans. Once you make them, you are stuck with them for life. And those things you choose to study? Many of those will never offer you the chance to make the money you need to pay the loans back. So now you're out of college with a degree that doesn't offer the income potential you need to pay for all those loans you signed for. So how is this any different from indentured servitude? It's not to a particular person, but to society at large. We give you a piece of paper, you sign it, you have fun and work hard for a few years, and then you're in such bad financial straits that you'll have to take anything you can find that makes money in a sad attempt to ever get even again. How many PhDs are waiting tables in college towns? Does this appear to be a functional system achieving necessary societal goals? There's a big discussion over whether college is necessary. No clear answers there. But there is also a discussion over whether the money trades that we make as a society are actually doing any good. We keep paying more and more, getting lots of good folks in debt, and when we ask if college is supposed to help them pay these loans back, we get a speech about how college is a special time in a person's life and shouldn't be related directly to money. It seems fine to relate it directly to money when the kid is signing his life away for a vague promise, but when we ask where the payoff is we're told we're being crass. It's about more than money. It's about the experience. That might be true, but there are a lot of special times in a person's life. Why are we letting people trade a few good years when they're young in order to limit their options for decades afterwards? Where's the sense in that, not to the person involved necessarily, but to the rest of us?

angdis 15y ago
Depending on the job market, college grads may or may not have a hard time find a job to get on track to pay off their loans quickly, so what? Everyone has a rough patch, some more than others. The high school student who chooses NOT to go to college might be better off for a few years after high school, but on average, their LONG TERM economic future is not as bright as that of a college grad-- even if the college grad has a rough time find settling into a career after graduation. This is perhaps more clear if you look at people in their 30's and 40's. The college grads are, I think, generally better off (modulo some outliers).
- nostromo 15y ago
  Correlation or causation? It seems to me colleges often accept people who are already poised to be successful. Imagine if a university decided to randomly pick people to educate. (Not randomly pick among the applicants -- randomly grab people off the street.) Do you think those students would be very much better off after being educated? (Btw, yes, I'm very happy I went to university.)
  - angdis 15y ago
    It depends. I think there are lots of folks who would excel but do not make it to college simply because of economic conditions or low familial expectations holding them down. There's also many without intellectual talent who get into college simply because a parent held their nose to the grindstone for years and forced every available opportunity onto them.
- timwiseman 15y ago
  Depending on the job market It also depends, at least somewhat, to what the degree is. This is anecdotal, but my friends that majored in math, CompSci, and Engineering rarely have trouble finding a decent job. On the other hand, the English and History majors I know frequently struggle to find a good job.
clarkevans 15y ago
While you can't default on the loans -- if you have the federal direct loan agency maintain the loan, it is relatively forgiving arrangement. They let you defer the loans almost indefinitely if you're near the poverty line or have any sort of hardship. They will also limit payments to a percentage of income... regardless of how much you owe. I've missed payments & they've re-set my schedule with almost no problems. They don't fine you to death. Overall, it's probably the most pleasant financial transaction I've ever engaged.
- dasil003 15y ago
  The relationship being so pleasant probably makes the problem worse, because there are fewer horror stories to warn young people away from the easy credit. The availability of this credit allows colleges to just keep increasing and increasing tuition at a time when education should be getting cheaper and fewer people can afford it.

angdis 15y ago

Depending on the job market, college grads may or may not have a hard time find a job to get on track to pay off their loans quickly, so what? Everyone has a rough patch, some more than others. The high school student who chooses NOT to go to college might be better off for a few years after high school, but on average, their LONG TERM economic future is not as bright as that of a college grad-- even if the college grad has a rough time find settling into a career after graduation. This is perhaps more clear if you look at people in their 30's and 40's. The college grads are, I think, generally better off (modulo some outliers).

nostromo 15y ago
Correlation or causation? It seems to me colleges often accept people who are already poised to be successful. Imagine if a university decided to randomly pick people to educate. (Not randomly pick among the applicants -- randomly grab people off the street.) Do you think those students would be very much better off after being educated? (Btw, yes, I'm very happy I went to university.)
- angdis 15y ago
  It depends. I think there are lots of folks who would excel but do not make it to college simply because of economic conditions or low familial expectations holding them down. There's also many without intellectual talent who get into college simply because a parent held their nose to the grindstone for years and forced every available opportunity onto them.
timwiseman 15y ago
Depending on the job market It also depends, at least somewhat, to what the degree is. This is anecdotal, but my friends that majored in math, CompSci, and Engineering rarely have trouble finding a decent job. On the other hand, the English and History majors I know frequently struggle to find a good job.

clarkevans 15y ago

While you can't default on the loans -- if you have the federal direct loan agency maintain the loan, it is relatively forgiving arrangement. They let you defer the loans almost indefinitely if you're near the poverty line or have any sort of hardship. They will also limit payments to a percentage of income... regardless of how much you owe. I've missed payments & they've re-set my schedule with almost no problems. They don't fine you to death. Overall, it's probably the most pleasant financial transaction I've ever engaged.

dasil003 15y ago
The relationship being so pleasant probably makes the problem worse, because there are fewer horror stories to warn young people away from the easy credit. The availability of this credit allows colleges to just keep increasing and increasing tuition at a time when education should be getting cheaper and fewer people can afford it.