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This article is bullshit. And 16 years old. No one is taking away your hammers. You are free to code native JS. If you want to reinvent the wheel every time y

This article is bullshit. And 16 years old. No one is taking away your hammers. You are free to code native JS. If you want to reinvent the wheel every time you start a project, go nuts. I want to buy pre-made wheels. They don't have to be a certain color with a special font, just round, rubber and reliable. The problem is today there are wheels and wheel factoriess and types of machines that use wheels, and their support levels vary wildly. Some wheels only go on square axles, some factories made great wheels and then closed up without warning, others only go on boats. E.g., VueJS is awesome and heavily supported today. But lots of the tooling around VueJS doesn't keep up with the changes (cough webpack/fusebox cough), so huge ecosystems built without forward support (or a deeper evaluation of their tool) decay rapidly. When I see a package.json boilerplate on GitHub from a year ago with 15 different tools, I know 50-70% of them are going to have problems. You should do a lot of research before bringing in a framework, and understanding the tooling required to make it usable. No one is taking away your hammers, but don't expect the latest stupid multi-gadget you bought on QVC at 3am and built an entire ecosystem on to exist forever.

ok123456 5y ago
This article was written at the peak of Enterprise Java, and it did have a negative effect on the industry. Tons of boilerplate and fragile XML. "Framework" meant something else then. It more was like a kitchen sink of design patterns and maybe some persistence.
- SavantIdiot 5y ago
  Ahhhh, good point. Every time I hear framework I immediately think "node/web". My prejudice / conditioning.
abhisuri97 5y ago
"You are free to code native JS". this really does seem like a simple/obvious statement, but I've been in the position where I've taught JS to beginners and holy crap...the amount of people that think they need to know React to do something as simple as a counter is absolutely insane. I think that the space of intro to web dev has been polluted by people pushing frameworks/libraries onto people when really just simple dom manipulation would do the trick. I think the issue the article was getting at is that the idea of the hammer is considered "obsolete"/useless by the experts in the field, leading those experts to push tool making factories onto beginners who really don't need it for their purpose (but don't know the wiser since they're new to woodworking after all). ...or maybe i'm reading too much into it.
- beebeepka 5y ago
  certain company has spent considerable resources continuously promoting that framework. At times I seriously think it has a real chance of evolving into a full blown religion. I am only semi joking
- SavantIdiot 5y ago
  I misunderstood the context. OP was referring to the state of Java in 2005 and I thought the reference was to JavaScript. Whole different world, but I can't delete/edit my post now.
- Rapzid 5y ago
  On the other hand, but not aimed at you, I've noticed a common theme with people who rail against frameworks and ORMs.. They act like everyone who likes them don't understand the low level or SQL :D Thay may be true for some, but all of the best people I know also embrace those niceties and know where the escape hatches are... "We don't use frameworks" <- Big red fracking flag.

ok123456 5y ago

This article was written at the peak of Enterprise Java, and it did have a negative effect on the industry. Tons of boilerplate and fragile XML. "Framework" meant something else then. It more was like a kitchen sink of design patterns and maybe some persistence.

SavantIdiot 5y ago
Ahhhh, good point. Every time I hear framework I immediately think "node/web". My prejudice / conditioning.

abhisuri97 5y ago

"You are free to code native JS". this really does seem like a simple/obvious statement, but I've been in the position where I've taught JS to beginners and holy crap...the amount of people that think they need to know React to do something as simple as a counter is absolutely insane. I think that the space of intro to web dev has been polluted by people pushing frameworks/libraries onto people when really just simple dom manipulation would do the trick. I think the issue the article was getting at is that the idea of the hammer is considered "obsolete"/useless by the experts in the field, leading those experts to push tool making factories onto beginners who really don't need it for their purpose (but don't know the wiser since they're new to woodworking after all). ...or maybe i'm reading too much into it.

beebeepka 5y ago
certain company has spent considerable resources continuously promoting that framework. At times I seriously think it has a real chance of evolving into a full blown religion. I am only semi joking
SavantIdiot 5y ago
I misunderstood the context. OP was referring to the state of Java in 2005 and I thought the reference was to JavaScript. Whole different world, but I can't delete/edit my post now.
Rapzid 5y ago
On the other hand, but not aimed at you, I've noticed a common theme with people who rail against frameworks and ORMs.. They act like everyone who likes them don't understand the low level or SQL :D Thay may be true for some, but all of the best people I know also embrace those niceties and know where the escape hatches are... "We don't use frameworks" <- Big red fracking flag.