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> As far as I am aware, there is no mechanism on iOS by which images are "automatically pulled into" iCloud photos from anywhere, Messages or otherwise. Do you

by flutas 5y ago

> As far as I am aware, there is no mechanism on iOS by which images are "automatically pulled into" iCloud photos from anywhere, Messages or otherwise. Do you have a source or an example of how that could happen? When I receive images from my friends, they don't go into my photo library until I explicitly tap "save". Per Apple [0] >Shared with You works across the system to find the (...) photos, and more that are shared in Messages conversations, and conveniently surfaces them in apps like Photos (...) making it easy to quickly access the information in context. --- >Yes, that's what I said. Enabling iCloud photos uploads your photo library to the cloud, so it's scanning your cloud photos. Being disingenuous about it is still a thing though. You stated > More accurately put, their intent is to scan cloud photos (...) (like every other cloud provider, including Google) which makes it appear that the photos are only scanned server side "like every other cloud provider". Client side scanning is something that no other provider does, in contrast to what you stated. [0]: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/06/ios-15-brings-powerful-new-features-to-stay-connected-focus-explore-and-more/#:~:text=Shared%20with%20You,information%20in%20context https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/06/ios-15-brings-powerfu....

marcellus23 5y ago
Shared with You does not actually save the images to your photo library. It just surfaces them inside the Photos app. I will admit it's not very clear from the press release, but those are the facts. I was not being disingenuous, frankly. I said that Apple is scanning your cloud photos, i.e. they are scanning photos that are uploaded to the cloud. Photos not being uploaded to the cloud are not scanned. I made no claims about where the scanning is happening, and I'm not particularly sure why it matters in any material sense.
- virgilp 5y ago
  You are thoroughly misrepresenting what Apple does. I initially thought you don't know what they do, but apparently you do very well. Still: they scan photos locally - those are not cloud photos, those are local photos. And they have deployed the technical capability. You can bet that once capability exists, they will bend to government demands - there's ample precedent for that. SO, yes, Apple, unlike all others, scans your photos locally. If they are going to be uploaded to cloud, or if they are forced to.
  - marcellus23 5y ago
    > Still: they scan photos locally - those are not cloud photos, those are local photos. They are cloud photos. I say that because: 1. The photos are in the process of being uploaded to the cloud when they are scanned 2. The result of the scan is attached to the photo only when it is uploaded to the cloud. If the photo is deleted from the cloud, or the upload is canceled, the scan result is discarded Practically, the system works precisely the same whether or not the scanning happens on device before the image reaches the cloud, or on the server after the image reaches the cloud. The only well-intentioned argument about why on-device vs. on-server scanning matters is that "slippery slope" argument, which presupposes that: 1. Apple putting this scanning code in iOS not only somehow makes it easier/more tempting to use it for non-CSAM, but all but guarantees it will be used for non-CSAM. 2. Apple does not already have the ability to run whatever code they want, on any of your devices, without you ever knowing 3. Apple folds very easily to government demands, especially when it comes to privacy, their core differentiator I don't think any of these are true. You might think they are, but then I'm not sure what point there is in discussing any more. > or if they are forced to. I'm not sure what this implies. If someone forces you to upload a photo to the cloud, surely that will get scanned regardless of whether the scanning is performed on-device or on-server?
    - throwaway122905 5y ago
      This conversation is rather bizarre. The input to the scanning system is a sequence of bits, read from the flash memory in the phone. Therefore, the scanning is local. There's really nothing more to it: The distinction is based on where the input is read from, in addition to where the input is processed. Both are happening inside the phone while you hold it in your hand. It is scanning images locally. This is totally unacceptable, and should never become acceptable.
      - x0x0 5y ago
        And they've opened a door that others will walk through.
      - marcellus23 5y ago

by flutas 5y ago

marcellus23 5y ago

Shared with You does not actually save the images to your photo library. It just surfaces them inside the Photos app. I will admit it's not very clear from the press release, but those are the facts. I was not being disingenuous, frankly. I said that Apple is scanning your cloud photos, i.e. they are scanning photos that are uploaded to the cloud. Photos not being uploaded to the cloud are not scanned. I made no claims about where the scanning is happening, and I'm not particularly sure why it matters in any material sense.

virgilp 5y ago
You are thoroughly misrepresenting what Apple does. I initially thought you don't know what they do, but apparently you do very well. Still: they scan photos locally - those are not cloud photos, those are local photos. And they have deployed the technical capability. You can bet that once capability exists, they will bend to government demands - there's ample precedent for that. SO, yes, Apple, unlike all others, scans your photos locally. If they are going to be uploaded to cloud, or if they are forced to.
- marcellus23 5y ago
  > Still: they scan photos locally - those are not cloud photos, those are local photos. They are cloud photos. I say that because: 1. The photos are in the process of being uploaded to the cloud when they are scanned 2. The result of the scan is attached to the photo only when it is uploaded to the cloud. If the photo is deleted from the cloud, or the upload is canceled, the scan result is discarded Practically, the system works precisely the same whether or not the scanning happens on device before the image reaches the cloud, or on the server after the image reaches the cloud. The only well-intentioned argument about why on-device vs. on-server scanning matters is that "slippery slope" argument, which presupposes that: 1. Apple putting this scanning code in iOS not only somehow makes it easier/more tempting to use it for non-CSAM, but all but guarantees it will be used for non-CSAM. 2. Apple does not already have the ability to run whatever code they want, on any of your devices, without you ever knowing 3. Apple folds very easily to government demands, especially when it comes to privacy, their core differentiator I don't think any of these are true. You might think they are, but then I'm not sure what point there is in discussing any more. > or if they are forced to. I'm not sure what this implies. If someone forces you to upload a photo to the cloud, surely that will get scanned regardless of whether the scanning is performed on-device or on-server?
  - throwaway122905 5y ago
    This conversation is rather bizarre. The input to the scanning system is a sequence of bits, read from the flash memory in the phone. Therefore, the scanning is local. There's really nothing more to it: The distinction is based on where the input is read from, in addition to where the input is processed. Both are happening inside the phone while you hold it in your hand. It is scanning images locally. This is totally unacceptable, and should never become acceptable.
    - x0x0 5y ago
      And they've opened a door that others will walk through.
    - marcellus23 5y ago