6 ms·

And I want a low unemployment rate so I can pay less in taxes due to the costs of welfare.

by kfprt 5y ago

Jensson 5y ago
High skill immigrants are net pay tax payers, they help reduce the need to tax you.
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  If a job is so hard to find that a company needs to find foreign talent to fill it, then it should pay WAY higher than the market average. That isn't what happens the vast majority of the time.
- bifrost 5y ago
  Eh, people paying taxes are not why taxes are high nor why they get raised regularly for no good reason...
- kfprt 5y ago
  That's not what I'm saying. If a company hires a foreigner instead of an American then that American doesn't have a job. If they don't have a job they are unemployed. If they are unemployed then they are a net cost to me the taxpayer. If we reduce unemployment we reduce the tax burden.
  - davidw 5y ago
    This is zero sum thinking, and it's been pretty thoroughly debunked. We have more people in the US than in 1960, and far more programming jobs.
    - kfprt 5y ago
      More people and fewer of them are in the labor force than in living memory. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART I should also note this isn't the 1960s when women were stay at home moms keeping the participation rate down. No, now it's just the nasty kind of unemployment where people are barely scraping by because single income with kids isn't middle class anymore.
  - reaperducer 5y ago
    If they are unemployed then they are a net cost to me the taxpayer. Unemployment benefits are not paid for by you the taxpayer. They are paid by the employee during employment and by his former employer both during and after the employment period. At least that's how it was in the three states where I've opened companies.
    - kfprt 5y ago
      While that is how unemployment insurance works, it is only temporary. Unemployed in the statistical sense means actively looking for work or on unemployment while in common parlance it refers to any person not currently employed. The costs of persons who are capable of being employed but are not come at great expense to the taxpayer. Foodstamps, housing assistance, healthcare and a myriad of other programs. It is far preferable to have as many citizens in the labor force as is reasonably possible.
      - random314 5y ago
        This is a super creative argument :D Arguing for protectionism for yourself while complaining about the cost of protectionism for the unemployed!! Who would be the "welfare queen" in this case. Is it those people who would have been unemployed with/without immigrants? OR Is it those who would have been employed only because of the presence of immigrants? As brexiteers have shown, be careful what you wish for.
        kfprt 5y ago
        "Promote the general welfare" is written in the constitution. It is my understanding that this is the point of government. https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/preamble https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/preamble
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    Software engineers create more software engineering jobs. Hiring a foreigner doesn't leave a gap for an American.
- bruceb 5y ago
  They also send billions overseas as opposed to Americans who spend their money in country. Its a complex situation filled with lies of omission.
- splistud 5y ago
  If they are paying the taxes rather than a citizen, then no, they are not net tax payers.
random314 5y ago
Its funny to see a Republican talking point of "welfare queens" being turned around to support socialism for local citizens and keep hard working immigrants out :D
- kfprt 5y ago
  America is a nation of citizens, not an international charity. Nor is it a corporatocracy in the legal sense.
  - random314 5y ago
    But why build such a welfare state that is doomed to fail? Immigrants have built this nation over several hundred years through diligent hard work. Why the volte face towards socialism to reverse all this progress?
    - kfprt 5y ago
      Surely I would be amenable to such an argument if the frontier was still open, the safety net nonexistent, and retirement age death. We must face facts, the conditions of the past are not the conditions of today nor can our policies reflect an alien society. Call it what you will, I call it the will of the electorate.

And I want a low unemployment rate so I can pay less in taxes due to the costs of welfare.

by kfprt 5y ago

And I want a low unemployment rate so I can pay less in taxes due to the costs of welfare.

Jensson 5y ago

High skill immigrants are net pay tax payers, they help reduce the need to tax you.

MisterBastahrd 5y ago
If a job is so hard to find that a company needs to find foreign talent to fill it, then it should pay WAY higher than the market average. That isn't what happens the vast majority of the time.
bifrost 5y ago
Eh, people paying taxes are not why taxes are high nor why they get raised regularly for no good reason...
kfprt 5y ago
That's not what I'm saying. If a company hires a foreigner instead of an American then that American doesn't have a job. If they don't have a job they are unemployed. If they are unemployed then they are a net cost to me the taxpayer. If we reduce unemployment we reduce the tax burden.
- davidw 5y ago
  This is zero sum thinking, and it's been pretty thoroughly debunked. We have more people in the US than in 1960, and far more programming jobs.
  - kfprt 5y ago
    More people and fewer of them are in the labor force than in living memory. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART I should also note this isn't the 1960s when women were stay at home moms keeping the participation rate down. No, now it's just the nasty kind of unemployment where people are barely scraping by because single income with kids isn't middle class anymore.
- reaperducer 5y ago
  If they are unemployed then they are a net cost to me the taxpayer. Unemployment benefits are not paid for by you the taxpayer. They are paid by the employee during employment and by his former employer both during and after the employment period. At least that's how it was in the three states where I've opened companies.
  - kfprt 5y ago
    While that is how unemployment insurance works, it is only temporary. Unemployed in the statistical sense means actively looking for work or on unemployment while in common parlance it refers to any person not currently employed. The costs of persons who are capable of being employed but are not come at great expense to the taxpayer. Foodstamps, housing assistance, healthcare and a myriad of other programs. It is far preferable to have as many citizens in the labor force as is reasonably possible.
    - random314 5y ago
      This is a super creative argument :D Arguing for protectionism for yourself while complaining about the cost of protectionism for the unemployed!! Who would be the "welfare queen" in this case. Is it those people who would have been unemployed with/without immigrants? OR Is it those who would have been employed only because of the presence of immigrants? As brexiteers have shown, be careful what you wish for.
      - kfprt 5y ago
        "Promote the general welfare" is written in the constitution. It is my understanding that this is the point of government. https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/preamble https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/preamble
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  Software engineers create more software engineering jobs. Hiring a foreigner doesn't leave a gap for an American.
bruceb 5y ago
They also send billions overseas as opposed to Americans who spend their money in country. Its a complex situation filled with lies of omission.
splistud 5y ago
If they are paying the taxes rather than a citizen, then no, they are not net tax payers.

random314 5y ago

Its funny to see a Republican talking point of "welfare queens" being turned around to support socialism for local citizens and keep hard working immigrants out :D

kfprt 5y ago
America is a nation of citizens, not an international charity. Nor is it a corporatocracy in the legal sense.
- random314 5y ago
  But why build such a welfare state that is doomed to fail? Immigrants have built this nation over several hundred years through diligent hard work. Why the volte face towards socialism to reverse all this progress?
  - kfprt 5y ago
    Surely I would be amenable to such an argument if the frontier was still open, the safety net nonexistent, and retirement age death. We must face facts, the conditions of the past are not the conditions of today nor can our policies reflect an alien society. Call it what you will, I call it the will of the electorate.