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An earlier article has a bit more description of the complaint: https://archive.md/67DiB https://archive.md/67DiB For those curious about how this works, the c

An earlier article has a bit more description of the complaint: https://archive.md/67DiB https://archive.md/67DiB For those curious about how this works, the company has to show it tried and couldn't hire a US resident, but they don't have to try very hard... so the company posts a brief job opening in a local newspaper. When nobody responds, because it's the newspaper, tada! Proof there was no American-based talent capable of filling the job.

WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
Is this a requirement in the US just for the initial hire, or do you also need to do the same when turning temporary position into a permanent one so your employee has a reason to apply for permanent residence, too?
- spamizbad 5y ago
  My understanding is its only before you can sponsor a visa. H1 transfers do not require such efforts. The other way companies do this: creating job ads that look impossible to fill by requiring 5 years of experience in a technology that's only been around for 2 years. Surprised Facebook does this as they certainly have no issue paying domestic employees top dollar.
  - outworlder 5y ago
    > My understanding is its only before you can sponsor a visa. H1 transfers do not require such efforts. What do you mean H1 transfers? You need to prove that there are no US citizens able to fill the role before you sponsor a H1 visa. You also need to do the same thing again (only much more detailed, including prevailing wage determination yada yada) before you can sponsor for permanent residency. L1 (intra-company transfers) also require proving that there are no better candidates (in the US company) that can do the same job. Including specifying all the skills and how many people you employ in the US that have those skills. > The other way companies do this: creating job ads that look impossible to fill by requiring 5 years of experience in a technology that's only been around for 2 years. If this is true (it probably isn't) why haven't you notified the Department of Labor and USCIS? They will be very interested.
    - NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
      >You need to prove that there are no US citizens able to fill the role before you sponsor a H1 visa. Pretty sure that's wrong; the requirement for an H1 is a LCA (Labor Condition Application) which is primarily a prevailing-wages thing along with some other labor condition items (e.g. there's not a strike ongoing at the location where you're trying to hire). Only companies flagged as H1 dependent or 'willful violators' need to certify that they've attempted to hire locally.
      - verifyitnow 5y ago
        this is correct for facebook which is classified as h1b dependent.
      - outworlder 5y ago
        > Only companies flagged as H1 dependent or 'willful violators' need to certify that they've attempted to hire locally. Ok, maybe I'm wrong – I understand the initial process for L1B a bit better than H1B. Blanket L1 app, there was an _absolutely enormous_ document stack with all sorts of things(for a blanket L1). Including all the skills, and how many people satisfied those skills in the US. Also information how the company would be able to afford the wages (Fortune 100). How much of this was absolutely required and how much was the law firm anticipating requests I do not know. The information about skill availability in the US headquarters was absolutely mandatory though.
        verifyitnow 5y ago
        facebook, having over 15% h1b in the us, was classified as h1b dependent.
    - a-and 5y ago
      An H1 transfer is when an active H1-B visa is transferred from one company to the other. If both incoming and outgoing positions are in the same geography and have the same responsibilities (e.g. a software engineer moving between Bay Area companies), the positions are considered equivalent. > prevailing wage determination You need to do this for H1 positions as well. You also need to file an LCA to prove the occupation is a "specialty" occupation. The process is in general quite similar.
- NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
  The LC (Labor Certification) process that's being described is a requirement to sponsor an employment-based immigrant visa; what most people call a Green Card. It is not, generally, a requirement for non-immigrant visas like the H-1B. For most people coming from abroad, they're either being hired initially on an H-1B and then - usually after their time on that visa is up - their employer might sponsor them for the immigrant visa. Others come via the intracompany transferee visa, the L-1. In certain categories, e.g. L-1A, for executives/managers, that visa allows an application for an immigrant visa without the LC process.
kodah 5y ago
About ten years ago, I remember getting low-balled by most coastal tech companies while living in the South. Absurdly low-balled at that. I wonder if this kind of activity is related to this kind of scheme.
MisterBastahrd 5y ago
They should be expected to try hard. Been a recruiter. It's comical what companies list in order to hire the cheap H1 they wanted all along. Absolutely no way anybody has the experience they claim they want most of the time.
- commandlinefan 5y ago
  Was out of work a few years back and responded to a job posting from LinkedIn. The posting had a LONG laundry list of requirements - maybe 15 or so (Java, JavaScript, Spring, Hibernate, Angular, JAXB, SQL, etc.) and another long list of "nice to haves" (MySQL, shell scripting, AWS, etc.) and I had years of hands-on experience with all of them. Every single one. I still didn't get the job.
outworlder 5y ago
> a brief job opening in a local newspaper Not just a brief job opening and it is not just one. It has to be posted twice and there are further requirements, can't just be a footnote. In addition, they have to post the job offers in a board visible in the company. This is part of the PERM process, which is step 1 out of 3. If you are complaining about the 'newspaper' thing, that's why immigration reform is needed. You can guess how old the regulations are. EDIT: https://www.immi-usa.com/perm/perm-advertising-requirements/ https://www.immi-usa.com/perm/perm-advertising-requirements/
Zigurd 5y ago
The letter of the H1-B requirements is very reasonable. If you are a first tier tech company, you should have no reason to run the same visa playbook as lower-tier "body shops." It's not a good look and it's not saving them much money.
RachelF 5y ago
Another trick is to post the job on Linkedin - for one minute. I've seen a few job ads that are active from 11:59-12:00

WesolyKubeczek 5y ago

Is this a requirement in the US just for the initial hire, or do you also need to do the same when turning temporary position into a permanent one so your employee has a reason to apply for permanent residence, too?

spamizbad 5y ago
My understanding is its only before you can sponsor a visa. H1 transfers do not require such efforts. The other way companies do this: creating job ads that look impossible to fill by requiring 5 years of experience in a technology that's only been around for 2 years. Surprised Facebook does this as they certainly have no issue paying domestic employees top dollar.
- outworlder 5y ago
  > My understanding is its only before you can sponsor a visa. H1 transfers do not require such efforts. What do you mean H1 transfers? You need to prove that there are no US citizens able to fill the role before you sponsor a H1 visa. You also need to do the same thing again (only much more detailed, including prevailing wage determination yada yada) before you can sponsor for permanent residency. L1 (intra-company transfers) also require proving that there are no better candidates (in the US company) that can do the same job. Including specifying all the skills and how many people you employ in the US that have those skills. > The other way companies do this: creating job ads that look impossible to fill by requiring 5 years of experience in a technology that's only been around for 2 years. If this is true (it probably isn't) why haven't you notified the Department of Labor and USCIS? They will be very interested.
  - NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
    >You need to prove that there are no US citizens able to fill the role before you sponsor a H1 visa. Pretty sure that's wrong; the requirement for an H1 is a LCA (Labor Condition Application) which is primarily a prevailing-wages thing along with some other labor condition items (e.g. there's not a strike ongoing at the location where you're trying to hire). Only companies flagged as H1 dependent or 'willful violators' need to certify that they've attempted to hire locally.
    - verifyitnow 5y ago
      this is correct for facebook which is classified as h1b dependent.
    - outworlder 5y ago
      > Only companies flagged as H1 dependent or 'willful violators' need to certify that they've attempted to hire locally. Ok, maybe I'm wrong – I understand the initial process for L1B a bit better than H1B. Blanket L1 app, there was an _absolutely enormous_ document stack with all sorts of things(for a blanket L1). Including all the skills, and how many people satisfied those skills in the US. Also information how the company would be able to afford the wages (Fortune 100). How much of this was absolutely required and how much was the law firm anticipating requests I do not know. The information about skill availability in the US headquarters was absolutely mandatory though.
      - verifyitnow 5y ago
        facebook, having over 15% h1b in the us, was classified as h1b dependent.
  - a-and 5y ago
    An H1 transfer is when an active H1-B visa is transferred from one company to the other. If both incoming and outgoing positions are in the same geography and have the same responsibilities (e.g. a software engineer moving between Bay Area companies), the positions are considered equivalent. > prevailing wage determination You need to do this for H1 positions as well. You also need to file an LCA to prove the occupation is a "specialty" occupation. The process is in general quite similar.
NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
The LC (Labor Certification) process that's being described is a requirement to sponsor an employment-based immigrant visa; what most people call a Green Card. It is not, generally, a requirement for non-immigrant visas like the H-1B. For most people coming from abroad, they're either being hired initially on an H-1B and then - usually after their time on that visa is up - their employer might sponsor them for the immigrant visa. Others come via the intracompany transferee visa, the L-1. In certain categories, e.g. L-1A, for executives/managers, that visa allows an application for an immigrant visa without the LC process.

kodah 5y ago

About ten years ago, I remember getting low-balled by most coastal tech companies while living in the South. Absurdly low-balled at that. I wonder if this kind of activity is related to this kind of scheme.

MisterBastahrd 5y ago

They should be expected to try hard. Been a recruiter. It's comical what companies list in order to hire the cheap H1 they wanted all along. Absolutely no way anybody has the experience they claim they want most of the time.

commandlinefan 5y ago
Was out of work a few years back and responded to a job posting from LinkedIn. The posting had a LONG laundry list of requirements - maybe 15 or so (Java, JavaScript, Spring, Hibernate, Angular, JAXB, SQL, etc.) and another long list of "nice to haves" (MySQL, shell scripting, AWS, etc.) and I had years of hands-on experience with all of them. Every single one. I still didn't get the job.

outworlder 5y ago

> a brief job opening in a local newspaper Not just a brief job opening and it is not just one. It has to be posted twice and there are further requirements, can't just be a footnote. In addition, they have to post the job offers in a board visible in the company. This is part of the PERM process, which is step 1 out of 3. If you are complaining about the 'newspaper' thing, that's why immigration reform is needed. You can guess how old the regulations are. EDIT: https://www.immi-usa.com/perm/perm-advertising-requirements/ https://www.immi-usa.com/perm/perm-advertising-requirements/

Zigurd 5y ago

The letter of the H1-B requirements is very reasonable. If you are a first tier tech company, you should have no reason to run the same visa playbook as lower-tier "body shops." It's not a good look and it's not saving them much money.

RachelF 5y ago

Another trick is to post the job on Linkedin - for one minute. I've seen a few job ads that are active from 11:59-12:00