5 ms·

If you have games, run them fullscreen. Fullscreen surfaces will get removed from composited desktop, scaled independently and can run at arbitrary resolutions.

kuschku 5y ago
How do I run https://www.shadertoy.com/ https://www.shadertoy.com/ in native fullscreen? How do I actually multitask while doing that? At 1.5x even my Ryzen 9 3900X and RX 5700XT are stuttering to show many shadertoy examples at 4K, where the performance at 1x is more than acceptable. Simply: Gnome (and Wayland) is broken, and this API must be changed. EDIT: For https://www.shadertoy.com/view/ss3SD8 https://www.shadertoy.com/view/ss3SD8 the difference on my laptop for example is 1280x720 at 1.4fps (1.25x scale) or 850x450 at 17fps (1.0x scale). That’s a massive difference, and enough to be the difference between usable and unusable.
- vetinari 5y ago
  We can point out corner cases for both approaches till cows come home. Yes, both of them have advantages and disadvantages, engineering is about picking the right compromise. So yes, there will be cases where you would be better of with the other approach... for a while. But the approach is not being picked just for today and for the current state of tech. For the same reason, you won't lock yourself into unnecessarily complicated software that is going to be permanently buggy, and to be obsolete soon -- just like you would not appreciate being locked into Psion/Symbian-like memory management today, despite making sense, solving a problem and being more effective years ago. This is exactly the same case. That software is going to stay here for decades... you RX 5700XT is not.
- md8z 5y ago
  "Gnome (and Wayland) is broken, and this API must be changed." Again I would say no, that's wrong, it's just not currently meant to run on your hardware. If you know how to change this API then please help. AFAIK there is no one working on this currently. To solve the problem, it really needs someone who is committed to getting it working on the type of hardware that you have and who can champion that use case. If that's not you then you'll have to wait (indefinitely) until that person shows up, if they do at all. Also, shadertoy is a really bad test case as those are more like demos, they aren't optimized and are just made to show how much you can do by computing things on the fly in a shader. A real program you'd see in production would make better use of GPU memory and wouldn't hammer the GPU cores so hard.
  - nextaccountic 5y ago
    > "Gnome (and Wayland) is broken, and this API must be changed." > Again I would say no, that's wrong, it's just not currently meant to run on your hardware. It' absurd that not running on common hardware is, somehow, not broken.
  - kuschku 5y ago
    What’s so complicated about just copying Windows, Android or Qt 1:1? I’ve got all my time already full with jobs, projects, and other stuff I’m working on, if I’d find time, I’d love to help extending wayland, deprecating GTK3 and GTK4, and modifying the software accordingly. I’ve made custom patches for the same purpose in the past already, but I just don’t have the time. Especially since with X11 it was at least somewhat possible to do it, but now with wayland it’s sadly enforced in the protocol to only use 8-bit sRGB and integer scale factors. If I ever find the person responsible for that decision...
    - vetinari 5y ago
      Android started with it from the start and developers were aware of it. Windows and Qt were retrofitted and it shows. Both are buggy and unreliable.
    - md8z 5y ago
      It's not hard to copy an API specification, but actually implementing the API and changing drawing in every app, toolkit and compositor to support floating point is what is going to be complicated and will take time. Edit: The decision to use integer coordinates I believe was made long ago in GTK1 because that's what X11 used, and it just hasn't been changed since. "Especially since with X11 it was at least somewhat possible to do it" X11 never actually supported this and also only uses integers for screen and input coordinates so I'm not sure what you're referring to. I think you are thinking of the app itself doing its own DPI scaling which will also work in wayland, but it will have the same problems where the DPI could mismatch with other apps and with the rest of the desktop. "I’d love to help extending wayland, deprecating GTK3 and GTK4" Well GTK3 is already in maintenance mode, and apps are currently in the process of being ported to GTK4, so first they'll probably want to finish that and get some feedback before starting on GTK5... it will probably be at least a few years before anything related to this could ship.

kuschku 5y ago

How do I run https://www.shadertoy.com/ https://www.shadertoy.com/ in native fullscreen? How do I actually multitask while doing that? At 1.5x even my Ryzen 9 3900X and RX 5700XT are stuttering to show many shadertoy examples at 4K, where the performance at 1x is more than acceptable. Simply: Gnome (and Wayland) is broken, and this API must be changed. EDIT: For https://www.shadertoy.com/view/ss3SD8 https://www.shadertoy.com/view/ss3SD8 the difference on my laptop for example is 1280x720 at 1.4fps (1.25x scale) or 850x450 at 17fps (1.0x scale). That’s a massive difference, and enough to be the difference between usable and unusable.

vetinari 5y ago
We can point out corner cases for both approaches till cows come home. Yes, both of them have advantages and disadvantages, engineering is about picking the right compromise. So yes, there will be cases where you would be better of with the other approach... for a while. But the approach is not being picked just for today and for the current state of tech. For the same reason, you won't lock yourself into unnecessarily complicated software that is going to be permanently buggy, and to be obsolete soon -- just like you would not appreciate being locked into Psion/Symbian-like memory management today, despite making sense, solving a problem and being more effective years ago. This is exactly the same case. That software is going to stay here for decades... you RX 5700XT is not.
md8z 5y ago
"Gnome (and Wayland) is broken, and this API must be changed." Again I would say no, that's wrong, it's just not currently meant to run on your hardware. If you know how to change this API then please help. AFAIK there is no one working on this currently. To solve the problem, it really needs someone who is committed to getting it working on the type of hardware that you have and who can champion that use case. If that's not you then you'll have to wait (indefinitely) until that person shows up, if they do at all. Also, shadertoy is a really bad test case as those are more like demos, they aren't optimized and are just made to show how much you can do by computing things on the fly in a shader. A real program you'd see in production would make better use of GPU memory and wouldn't hammer the GPU cores so hard.
- nextaccountic 5y ago
  > "Gnome (and Wayland) is broken, and this API must be changed." > Again I would say no, that's wrong, it's just not currently meant to run on your hardware. It' absurd that not running on common hardware is, somehow, not broken.
- kuschku 5y ago
  What’s so complicated about just copying Windows, Android or Qt 1:1? I’ve got all my time already full with jobs, projects, and other stuff I’m working on, if I’d find time, I’d love to help extending wayland, deprecating GTK3 and GTK4, and modifying the software accordingly. I’ve made custom patches for the same purpose in the past already, but I just don’t have the time. Especially since with X11 it was at least somewhat possible to do it, but now with wayland it’s sadly enforced in the protocol to only use 8-bit sRGB and integer scale factors. If I ever find the person responsible for that decision...
  - vetinari 5y ago
    Android started with it from the start and developers were aware of it. Windows and Qt were retrofitted and it shows. Both are buggy and unreliable.
  - md8z 5y ago
    It's not hard to copy an API specification, but actually implementing the API and changing drawing in every app, toolkit and compositor to support floating point is what is going to be complicated and will take time. Edit: The decision to use integer coordinates I believe was made long ago in GTK1 because that's what X11 used, and it just hasn't been changed since. "Especially since with X11 it was at least somewhat possible to do it" X11 never actually supported this and also only uses integers for screen and input coordinates so I'm not sure what you're referring to. I think you are thinking of the app itself doing its own DPI scaling which will also work in wayland, but it will have the same problems where the DPI could mismatch with other apps and with the rest of the desktop. "I’d love to help extending wayland, deprecating GTK3 and GTK4" Well GTK3 is already in maintenance mode, and apps are currently in the process of being ported to GTK4, so first they'll probably want to finish that and get some feedback before starting on GTK5... it will probably be at least a few years before anything related to this could ship.