5 ms·

Microsoft To Phone Makers: Maybe You Should Pick Us

2 points by recoiledsnake 15y ago

rbanffy 15y ago
Right. Because Windows phones are flying off the shelves faster than factories can produce them...
- polyfractal 15y ago
  It's really a shame though - WP7 is a really slick OS. I love my WP7 phone. In comparison, I find my friend's Android clunky and slow. I've also been toying around with the development environment and find it just as nice. Creating apps are super easy. With Google's purchase, they are now directly competing with some of their Android partners, which should prove interesting. I can see MS courting some of the companies and potentially drawing some away from Android. No company likes to be completely beholden to one provider, and the option of WP7 may prove alluring enough. Nokia is switching over to WP7 too. While Nokia has been sliding downhill for a while now, the switch should help drive adoption. MS may pull a Google and just outright buy Nokia too.
  - rbanffy 15y ago
    I don't think it's that much of a shame. WP7 came late and was largely underwhelming at launch - the SDcard thing, lack of copy/paste and multitasking... I can't develop for it on my computer (I don't use Windows) and I doubt I would even be able to connect to it from Linux. OTOH, I love my WebOS phone. The OS is beautiful, the metaphors powerful and "flow" of doing things conveys the excellence Palm has shown since their Pilot days. I can develop on Linux and Mac (and could use Windows). Yet, it's market share doesn't reflect its excellence. Now that's a shame.
    - polyfractal 15y ago
      Yeah, it stumbled a bit. But copy/paste has been rectified and Mango fixes multitasking. iOS wasn't perfect when it first came out either. And to be fair, you can't really develop for iOS on Windows either. Regardless, my point was that everyone overlooks WP7 either because A) Microsoft or B) "I heard it was bad when it first came out". Once you actually let someone play with a WP7 phone, most people really enjoy the experience.
    - runjake 15y ago
      Why must you persist in trolling Microsoft articles on HN? I don't get the discontinuity between your comments regarding WP7 and WebOS. They both came late to the game, were largely lacking and underpowered. WebOS devices have shown similarly dismal sales to WP7 devices. Something doesn't have to fly off the shelves to be a shame. Your first gripes accurately describe the iPhone, by the way, and it hardly ended up being a market failure, especially after it matured a year or so. PS: And WebOS is no PalmOS, IMHO. PalmOS was the definition of simple and elegant.
      - rbanffy 15y ago
        > They both came late to the game, were largely lacking and underpowered. I happen to own a Pre 2 and it's really sweet. While the original Pre may have been a little bit slower, the 2 is very comfortable to use. It had multi-tasking and a functional clipboard from day one too (it baffles me how would anyone launch a smartphone without it) and came from a company with very limited resources that was literally betting itself on the product. The only problem I see with WebOS is the lack of applications. WP7, OTOH, was aimed at phones with better specs than the Pre and it is very comfortable to use from the little I played with it, but was launched without a clipboard years after the iPhone had one and multi-tasking was introduced only in Mango. It comes from a company with pretty much unlimited resources and that has been developing mobile operating systems (they ate Palm's lunch once) for more than a decade. Are you sure you want to contrast what Palm achieved with what Microsoft did? > PS: And WebOS is no PalmOS, IMHO. PalmOS was the definition of simple and elegant. I can tell you from my own experience it's orders of magnitude more practical to use (as in "less typing/swiping/touching) than either iOS or vanilla Android. The attention to every little detail is absolutely impressive and the "Just type" interface, simply brilliant.
        polyfractal 15y ago
        I fail to see how the size of the company should affect one's perception of an OS. If WP7 was made by two greasy dudes in their basement, I would still think it is just as nice. I've used the clipboard once since they've updated WP7 with it, but perhaps I'm just not a smartphone power user. Regarding multitasking, frankly I like iOS/WP7 solution far better than Android. Android runs fully background tasks, meaning all those poorly coded applications can chew away at your memory, cpu and battery life. The iPhone forces apps to hibernate, or at most keep one thread open for background processing or streaming. The rest of the app is suspended. WP7 allows tombstoning your application and you can push updates through Live Tiles. With Mango WP7 will operate basically like the iPhone.
- pedalpete 15y ago
  Not sure exactly what your argument or point is. Is Android selling because it is the best OS? or because it is currently seen as the 'other' OS? if more devices come with WP7 installed, with more shelf space dedicated to WP7 vs. Android, is there any reason why WP7 couldn't take the same position as Android? The WP7 marketplace is growing quickly, the OS is solid and beautiful, and there is a lot of 'interest' at the moment. That 'interest' may not turn into sales, but handset manufacturers considering WP over Android could make a huge difference.
  - rbanffy 15y ago
    The biggest problem with WP7 is that it's limited to fairly high-end and expensive phones. Android spans a much wider space - not always well, and that's one reason for the relatively low consumer satisfaction. Google has a delicate situation in their hands - they must calm down its Android partners and ensure Motorola won't have preferential treatment. One way to calm them down is to step up with its new patent portfolio and use it to help protect the likes of HTC and Samsung from Apple's and Microsoft's patents.
  - runjake 15y ago
    Look at rbanffy's comment history and you'll see that he trolls Microsoft articles for some odd reason. It's not really worth engaging in discussions with him. I'm not sure of his goals in participating in such discussions about Microsoft or WP7 as he never really adds anything beyond a personal rant or few.
nextparadigms 15y ago
Microsoft will basically pay billions to Nokia in deals/cash/promotion and they will allow them to customize WP7 more than any other manufacturer. Plus, they've put a lot of their "former" employees at the top of Nokia. Is that really that different? It looks like an unofficial acquisition of Nokia, to me. At least with Android they are selling millions of devices per month. With WP7, not so much.

2 points by recoiledsnake 15y ago

rbanffy 15y ago

Right. Because Windows phones are flying off the shelves faster than factories can produce them...

polyfractal 15y ago
It's really a shame though - WP7 is a really slick OS. I love my WP7 phone. In comparison, I find my friend's Android clunky and slow. I've also been toying around with the development environment and find it just as nice. Creating apps are super easy. With Google's purchase, they are now directly competing with some of their Android partners, which should prove interesting. I can see MS courting some of the companies and potentially drawing some away from Android. No company likes to be completely beholden to one provider, and the option of WP7 may prove alluring enough. Nokia is switching over to WP7 too. While Nokia has been sliding downhill for a while now, the switch should help drive adoption. MS may pull a Google and just outright buy Nokia too.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  I don't think it's that much of a shame. WP7 came late and was largely underwhelming at launch - the SDcard thing, lack of copy/paste and multitasking... I can't develop for it on my computer (I don't use Windows) and I doubt I would even be able to connect to it from Linux. OTOH, I love my WebOS phone. The OS is beautiful, the metaphors powerful and "flow" of doing things conveys the excellence Palm has shown since their Pilot days. I can develop on Linux and Mac (and could use Windows). Yet, it's market share doesn't reflect its excellence. Now that's a shame.
  - polyfractal 15y ago
    Yeah, it stumbled a bit. But copy/paste has been rectified and Mango fixes multitasking. iOS wasn't perfect when it first came out either. And to be fair, you can't really develop for iOS on Windows either. Regardless, my point was that everyone overlooks WP7 either because A) Microsoft or B) "I heard it was bad when it first came out". Once you actually let someone play with a WP7 phone, most people really enjoy the experience.
  - runjake 15y ago
    Why must you persist in trolling Microsoft articles on HN? I don't get the discontinuity between your comments regarding WP7 and WebOS. They both came late to the game, were largely lacking and underpowered. WebOS devices have shown similarly dismal sales to WP7 devices. Something doesn't have to fly off the shelves to be a shame. Your first gripes accurately describe the iPhone, by the way, and it hardly ended up being a market failure, especially after it matured a year or so. PS: And WebOS is no PalmOS, IMHO. PalmOS was the definition of simple and elegant.
    - rbanffy 15y ago
      > They both came late to the game, were largely lacking and underpowered. I happen to own a Pre 2 and it's really sweet. While the original Pre may have been a little bit slower, the 2 is very comfortable to use. It had multi-tasking and a functional clipboard from day one too (it baffles me how would anyone launch a smartphone without it) and came from a company with very limited resources that was literally betting itself on the product. The only problem I see with WebOS is the lack of applications. WP7, OTOH, was aimed at phones with better specs than the Pre and it is very comfortable to use from the little I played with it, but was launched without a clipboard years after the iPhone had one and multi-tasking was introduced only in Mango. It comes from a company with pretty much unlimited resources and that has been developing mobile operating systems (they ate Palm's lunch once) for more than a decade. Are you sure you want to contrast what Palm achieved with what Microsoft did? > PS: And WebOS is no PalmOS, IMHO. PalmOS was the definition of simple and elegant. I can tell you from my own experience it's orders of magnitude more practical to use (as in "less typing/swiping/touching) than either iOS or vanilla Android. The attention to every little detail is absolutely impressive and the "Just type" interface, simply brilliant.
      - polyfractal 15y ago
        I fail to see how the size of the company should affect one's perception of an OS. If WP7 was made by two greasy dudes in their basement, I would still think it is just as nice. I've used the clipboard once since they've updated WP7 with it, but perhaps I'm just not a smartphone power user. Regarding multitasking, frankly I like iOS/WP7 solution far better than Android. Android runs fully background tasks, meaning all those poorly coded applications can chew away at your memory, cpu and battery life. The iPhone forces apps to hibernate, or at most keep one thread open for background processing or streaming. The rest of the app is suspended. WP7 allows tombstoning your application and you can push updates through Live Tiles. With Mango WP7 will operate basically like the iPhone.
pedalpete 15y ago
Not sure exactly what your argument or point is. Is Android selling because it is the best OS? or because it is currently seen as the 'other' OS? if more devices come with WP7 installed, with more shelf space dedicated to WP7 vs. Android, is there any reason why WP7 couldn't take the same position as Android? The WP7 marketplace is growing quickly, the OS is solid and beautiful, and there is a lot of 'interest' at the moment. That 'interest' may not turn into sales, but handset manufacturers considering WP over Android could make a huge difference.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  The biggest problem with WP7 is that it's limited to fairly high-end and expensive phones. Android spans a much wider space - not always well, and that's one reason for the relatively low consumer satisfaction. Google has a delicate situation in their hands - they must calm down its Android partners and ensure Motorola won't have preferential treatment. One way to calm them down is to step up with its new patent portfolio and use it to help protect the likes of HTC and Samsung from Apple's and Microsoft's patents.
- runjake 15y ago
  Look at rbanffy's comment history and you'll see that he trolls Microsoft articles for some odd reason. It's not really worth engaging in discussions with him. I'm not sure of his goals in participating in such discussions about Microsoft or WP7 as he never really adds anything beyond a personal rant or few.

nextparadigms 15y ago

Microsoft will basically pay billions to Nokia in deals/cash/promotion and they will allow them to customize WP7 more than any other manufacturer. Plus, they've put a lot of their "former" employees at the top of Nokia. Is that really that different? It looks like an unofficial acquisition of Nokia, to me. At least with Android they are selling millions of devices per month. With WP7, not so much.