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I don't see this as an argument against framework, I see it as an argument against continued abstraction. Developers seem to be obsessed with solving the N+1 or

by dexwiz 5y ago

I don't see this as an argument against framework, I see it as an argument against continued abstraction. Developers seem to be obsessed with solving the N+1 order of abstraction than requested of them. "Why solve the specific case, when I can solve the general?" If you continually ask yourself this question, that is how you end up with an Abstract Abstract Tool Factory Factory. Solving multiple specific cases is hard, so sometimes it's easier to solve the general, and push the specific problems to the consumer. Except of you do this continuously then you have pushed the entire problem to the consumer. Plus you push the additional configuration problem since these solutions rightful attempt to expose declarative configuration.

ozim 5y ago
I have a funny anecdote from my experience. We sit in a meeting and discuss some feature, there are two new devs in the room, I am dev as well but I worked with those business people for quite some time. Business people start talking about "generic solution" and I already hear devs asking questions/talking like they are preparing to build "reusable and flexible framework for all your needs". Where "generic solution" for business was maybe 2 or 3 types of texts with possibility to add maybe 1 at some point. But that was nowhere near what devs were imagining especially when "generic types" has specific meaning for programming languages.
- unilynx 5y ago
  Translating from business terminology to developer terminology is always fun, especially when they use the exact same words. One of the first times I encountered it at the early web, when a customer wants you to 'connect' two systems, before you start analysing the data models, first check if maybe all he wanted was a hyperlink.
  - dexwiz 5y ago
    Yeah, developers tend to take the most of a meaning.
continuational 5y ago
I couldn't agree more. Highly configurable frameworks are essentially just home grown programming languages, in which your code just happens to live in a configuration file.

by dexwiz 5y ago

ozim 5y ago

I have a funny anecdote from my experience. We sit in a meeting and discuss some feature, there are two new devs in the room, I am dev as well but I worked with those business people for quite some time. Business people start talking about "generic solution" and I already hear devs asking questions/talking like they are preparing to build "reusable and flexible framework for all your needs". Where "generic solution" for business was maybe 2 or 3 types of texts with possibility to add maybe 1 at some point. But that was nowhere near what devs were imagining especially when "generic types" has specific meaning for programming languages.

unilynx 5y ago
Translating from business terminology to developer terminology is always fun, especially when they use the exact same words. One of the first times I encountered it at the early web, when a customer wants you to 'connect' two systems, before you start analysing the data models, first check if maybe all he wanted was a hyperlink.
- dexwiz 5y ago
  Yeah, developers tend to take the most of a meaning.

continuational 5y ago

I couldn't agree more. Highly configurable frameworks are essentially just home grown programming languages, in which your code just happens to live in a configuration file.