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I like Cue and Jsonnet and Starlark and so on. But all of these have very low mindshare (though Starlark has the most momentum thanks to Bazel), and who knows i

I like Cue and Jsonnet and Starlark and so on. But all of these have very low mindshare (though Starlark has the most momentum thanks to Bazel), and who knows if they will be dead by next year. Being an early adopter is difficult both in terms of the immaturity of the tooling — Cue, for example, only has a Go implementation at the moment — and in terms of the risk of betting on an evolutionary dead end, which can cause a lot of unnecessary churn when you want to standardize on something across an entire organization. As a concrete example, I'd love to replace Kubernetes's use of YAML with something like the above. But the tooling is immature, and almost nobody is using any of it. For example, there's Isopod [1], which is a nice-looking tool to use Starlark with Kubernetes. But it might go the same way as Ksonnet. Anyone actually using these tools? [1] https://github.com/cruise-automation/isopod https://github.com/cruise-automation/isopod

SEJeff 5y ago
I use them to manage infrastructure running in Kubernetes. One of my coworker’s previous companies actually funded the cue support in IntelliJ. For kubernetes, it actually introspects the structs and interfaces to create the validation bits. It has a high learning curve but is surprisingly nice once you get the hang of it. There is a lot less duplication due to it in my use.
asymmetric 5y ago
There are plenty of well supported Jsonnet libraries for Kubrnetes. Have a look at [1] as a starting point. I’ve used it in production with great success, with tanka[2] as the glue . [1]: https://github.com/grafana/jsonnet-libs https://github.com/grafana/jsonnet-libs [2]: https://tanka.dev https://tanka.dev
- verdverm 5y ago
  Grafana is adopting CUE for dashboard schemas in the mainline. I believe it is internal validation with the intention to expose it to end users
dqpb 5y ago
My recommendation is to make your choice based on the merits of the options, rather than trying to keep up with the latest trend. It's more satisfying to choose something with less mindshare for your own reason, than something with more mindshare for no reason of your own. Take a look at the logic of cue: https://cuelang.org/docs/concepts/logic/ https://cuelang.org/docs/concepts/logic/ If nothing else, it will make you smarter, and that will make you more conscious, and that will make you more alive.
- mason55 5y ago
  > My recommendation is to make your choice based on the merits of the options, rather than trying to keep up with the latest trend. It's not a matter of keeping up with the latest trend, it's a matter of moving a whole org to a technology or project that gets killed off. There are real costs to making the wrong choice. > If nothing else, it will make you smarter, and that will make you more conscious, and that will make you more alive. Which is great if you're talking about a personal project but if you're setting strategy for an org or team then you need a better metric than "how alive does it make you feel."
  - dqpb 5y ago
    It’s an open source library, not a service. So if you fork it, it can’t be killed off.
    - verdverm 5y ago
      The creator Marcel left Google to work on CUE full-time, and created an independent foundation. https://twitter.com/mpvl_/status/1412793623381516294 https://twitter.com/mpvl_/status/1412793623381516294
  - ra7 5y ago
    > Which is great if you're talking about a personal project but if you're setting strategy for an org or team then you need a better metric than "how alive does it make you feel." I don't think GP meant you base your strategy on "how alive Cue makes you feel". They simply meant the concepts are a good read and having read the Cue documentation before, I agree with it.

SEJeff 5y ago

I use them to manage infrastructure running in Kubernetes. One of my coworker’s previous companies actually funded the cue support in IntelliJ. For kubernetes, it actually introspects the structs and interfaces to create the validation bits. It has a high learning curve but is surprisingly nice once you get the hang of it. There is a lot less duplication due to it in my use.

asymmetric 5y ago

There are plenty of well supported Jsonnet libraries for Kubrnetes. Have a look at [1] as a starting point. I’ve used it in production with great success, with tanka[2] as the glue . [1]: https://github.com/grafana/jsonnet-libs https://github.com/grafana/jsonnet-libs [2]: https://tanka.dev https://tanka.dev

verdverm 5y ago
Grafana is adopting CUE for dashboard schemas in the mainline. I believe it is internal validation with the intention to expose it to end users

dqpb 5y ago

My recommendation is to make your choice based on the merits of the options, rather than trying to keep up with the latest trend. It's more satisfying to choose something with less mindshare for your own reason, than something with more mindshare for no reason of your own. Take a look at the logic of cue: https://cuelang.org/docs/concepts/logic/ https://cuelang.org/docs/concepts/logic/ If nothing else, it will make you smarter, and that will make you more conscious, and that will make you more alive.

mason55 5y ago
> My recommendation is to make your choice based on the merits of the options, rather than trying to keep up with the latest trend. It's not a matter of keeping up with the latest trend, it's a matter of moving a whole org to a technology or project that gets killed off. There are real costs to making the wrong choice. > If nothing else, it will make you smarter, and that will make you more conscious, and that will make you more alive. Which is great if you're talking about a personal project but if you're setting strategy for an org or team then you need a better metric than "how alive does it make you feel."
- dqpb 5y ago
  It’s an open source library, not a service. So if you fork it, it can’t be killed off.
  - verdverm 5y ago
    The creator Marcel left Google to work on CUE full-time, and created an independent foundation. https://twitter.com/mpvl_/status/1412793623381516294 https://twitter.com/mpvl_/status/1412793623381516294
- ra7 5y ago
  > Which is great if you're talking about a personal project but if you're setting strategy for an org or team then you need a better metric than "how alive does it make you feel." I don't think GP meant you base your strategy on "how alive Cue makes you feel". They simply meant the concepts are a good read and having read the Cue documentation before, I agree with it.