6 ms·

Is this the same guy who recently posted about trying to bluff Steve Jobs, getting called out on it and losing a deal? I wonder how many more stories like these

Is this the same guy who recently posted about trying to bluff Steve Jobs, getting called out on it and losing a deal? I wonder how many more stories like these he has lol Edit: found the link for those interested https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28826437 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28826437

rexreed 5y ago
Yup I was about to post, it's the same guy. You'd think he'd learn his lesson about keeping his mouth shut. Not speaking sometimes is as strategic as speaking. Not sure what impact he wants these tweet threads to have, but if all you know from him are those tweet threads, it doesn't paint a very positive light. I'd like to replace TL;DR with TT;DR: Tweet Thread, Didn't Read.
- ksec 5y ago
  Exactly. It is basic Business 101 with Yahoo. It wasn't about "too honest". ( What a nice way he is trying to spin it ). But that is Ok. We were all once young, naive and vigorous. But that was the Yahoo era. He then repeat the same mistake with Steve? And Apple has a history of not paying much for M&A. It was really well known even in 2008. And $300M for P.A Semi was considered a very big deal back then.
- raydev 5y ago
  > Not sure what impact he wants these tweet threads to have They're notable stories and helpful to others who might make the same mistakes. I'm more concerned that you are bothered by his honesty about past mistakes.
gonehome 5y ago
It’s kind of the same mistake? Talking when he should have stopped talking.
crate_barre 5y ago
The mistake was he tried negotiating with Jobs himself lol. I dunno, getting 50m in Apple stock would have been fine if the buyout had to be 50m. The deal would have been way more than 3x by now. Bravado at work here. Yes, this man has the same problem I suffer from (not in selling myself, I’m pretty good about shutting the fuck up in that regard), but in general, this gentleman suffers from ‘can not shut the fuck up’. I can commiserate.
lnxg33k1 5y ago
Yeah now he's starting to give me pinky and the brain vibes, like always getting so close and then fucking up ;o
- ProjectArcturis 5y ago
  He did manage to sell his company later to Microsoft for twice the price, so in this case, Pinky finally won.
  - lnxg33k1 5y ago
    Ah nice
refurb 5y ago
I’m not sure he bombed the Steve Jobs discussion. Throwing out a higher number you believe in is not destroying the deal, that’s just Jobs being a dick. His “i can’t trust you” is pure bullshit and nothing but a negotiating tactic. Now a better approach would be to ignore Steve and negotiate with the deal team (and let them argue with Steve). But the outcome could have been the exact same.
- gonehome 5y ago
  He bombed - he should have stopped once he had the Yes from Steve. Negotiation can happen later.
- khazhoux 5y ago
  From his recounting of it, he literally killed the deal. Steve had said "yes" and said Eddy Cue would take it from there, and was preparing to leave the meeting. Then Ali decided it would be good to start negotiating price right then and there. Steve might have really been offended by Ali bluffing the sale price he could command. Or he could have been offended that this guy was such an obvious amateur.
  - splistud 5y ago
    Steve said yes and Eddy will take it from here is not 'a deal' yet
    - khazhoux 5y ago
      Of course. It's interesting, though, how the CEO managed to present successfully to Steve without crumbling (no mean feat!) and still didn't have the sense to understand that Steve himself would not be negotiating the deal, just giving final signoff. A bizarrely rookie move. Just based on these two anecdotes, I get the impression this guy simply does not have a feel for the etiquette of these negotiations.
- awb 5y ago
  > Throwing out a higher number you believe in is not destroying the deal, that’s just Jobs being a dick. From the thread the difference was when he followed up his "I think we're worth $150M" with a corrected "I know we're worth $150M". Jobs probably balked at the "I know" part because he knew Apple was one of less than 5 companies that had tons of extra cash in a financial crisis (2008) and had the strategic alignment to make the acquisition. Plus Jobs undoubtedly already had internal estimates for cloning the company. I don't think Jobs was being a dick, I think Jobs was just defining a strong negotiating point by telling this young entrepreneur that he sets the market price for acquisitions, not the startup. Sometimes aggression is a good negotiating tactic. They apparently continued to negotiate after that, so it wasn't like it killed the deal. Thinking you're worth 3x what your investors and your target acquirer thinks you're worth is what kills the deal.
danw1979 5y ago
Exactly ! Now carving out a new career talking a lot about how he got in trouble by talking too much.
joemazerino 5y ago
The elephant in the room of this thread is that Steve was a Goliath of negotiation. He had his own reality distortion field and he should, and was, considered an aggressive player. You don't overplay your hands to aggressive bigshots like Steve.
saeranv 5y ago
Just to be clear, he was also offered $285 million 6 months later from Microsoft, so whatever he's doing seems to have worked out pretty well for him. Perhaps his tolerance, and aptitude for risk-taking, which seems crazy to us (talking carelessly right before deal has been formalized) is also what lead him to success in the first place.

rexreed 5y ago

Yup I was about to post, it's the same guy. You'd think he'd learn his lesson about keeping his mouth shut. Not speaking sometimes is as strategic as speaking. Not sure what impact he wants these tweet threads to have, but if all you know from him are those tweet threads, it doesn't paint a very positive light. I'd like to replace TL;DR with TT;DR: Tweet Thread, Didn't Read.

ksec 5y ago
Exactly. It is basic Business 101 with Yahoo. It wasn't about "too honest". ( What a nice way he is trying to spin it ). But that is Ok. We were all once young, naive and vigorous. But that was the Yahoo era. He then repeat the same mistake with Steve? And Apple has a history of not paying much for M&A. It was really well known even in 2008. And $300M for P.A Semi was considered a very big deal back then.
raydev 5y ago
> Not sure what impact he wants these tweet threads to have They're notable stories and helpful to others who might make the same mistakes. I'm more concerned that you are bothered by his honesty about past mistakes.

gonehome 5y ago

It’s kind of the same mistake? Talking when he should have stopped talking.

crate_barre 5y ago

The mistake was he tried negotiating with Jobs himself lol. I dunno, getting 50m in Apple stock would have been fine if the buyout had to be 50m. The deal would have been way more than 3x by now. Bravado at work here. Yes, this man has the same problem I suffer from (not in selling myself, I’m pretty good about shutting the fuck up in that regard), but in general, this gentleman suffers from ‘can not shut the fuck up’. I can commiserate.

lnxg33k1 5y ago

Yeah now he's starting to give me pinky and the brain vibes, like always getting so close and then fucking up ;o

ProjectArcturis 5y ago
He did manage to sell his company later to Microsoft for twice the price, so in this case, Pinky finally won.
- lnxg33k1 5y ago
  Ah nice

refurb 5y ago

I’m not sure he bombed the Steve Jobs discussion. Throwing out a higher number you believe in is not destroying the deal, that’s just Jobs being a dick. His “i can’t trust you” is pure bullshit and nothing but a negotiating tactic. Now a better approach would be to ignore Steve and negotiate with the deal team (and let them argue with Steve). But the outcome could have been the exact same.

gonehome 5y ago
He bombed - he should have stopped once he had the Yes from Steve. Negotiation can happen later.
khazhoux 5y ago
From his recounting of it, he literally killed the deal. Steve had said "yes" and said Eddy Cue would take it from there, and was preparing to leave the meeting. Then Ali decided it would be good to start negotiating price right then and there. Steve might have really been offended by Ali bluffing the sale price he could command. Or he could have been offended that this guy was such an obvious amateur.
- splistud 5y ago
  Steve said yes and Eddy will take it from here is not 'a deal' yet
  - khazhoux 5y ago
    Of course. It's interesting, though, how the CEO managed to present successfully to Steve without crumbling (no mean feat!) and still didn't have the sense to understand that Steve himself would not be negotiating the deal, just giving final signoff. A bizarrely rookie move. Just based on these two anecdotes, I get the impression this guy simply does not have a feel for the etiquette of these negotiations.
awb 5y ago
> Throwing out a higher number you believe in is not destroying the deal, that’s just Jobs being a dick. From the thread the difference was when he followed up his "I think we're worth $150M" with a corrected "I know we're worth $150M". Jobs probably balked at the "I know" part because he knew Apple was one of less than 5 companies that had tons of extra cash in a financial crisis (2008) and had the strategic alignment to make the acquisition. Plus Jobs undoubtedly already had internal estimates for cloning the company. I don't think Jobs was being a dick, I think Jobs was just defining a strong negotiating point by telling this young entrepreneur that he sets the market price for acquisitions, not the startup. Sometimes aggression is a good negotiating tactic. They apparently continued to negotiate after that, so it wasn't like it killed the deal. Thinking you're worth 3x what your investors and your target acquirer thinks you're worth is what kills the deal.

danw1979 5y ago

Exactly ! Now carving out a new career talking a lot about how he got in trouble by talking too much.

joemazerino 5y ago

The elephant in the room of this thread is that Steve was a Goliath of negotiation. He had his own reality distortion field and he should, and was, considered an aggressive player. You don't overplay your hands to aggressive bigshots like Steve.

saeranv 5y ago

Just to be clear, he was also offered $285 million 6 months later from Microsoft, so whatever he's doing seems to have worked out pretty well for him. Perhaps his tolerance, and aptitude for risk-taking, which seems crazy to us (talking carelessly right before deal has been formalized) is also what lead him to success in the first place.