6 ms·

In the German dub those black guys had to speak in some unintelligible dialect, but of course there's no such thing as German jive. So they made them talk in a

In the German dub those black guys had to speak in some unintelligible dialect, but of course there's no such thing as German jive. So they made them talk in a very thick Bavarian dialect, which made the whole thing absurd on a higher level. The 70s and 80s had some great talent behind German dubs.

caminante 5y ago
Found it [0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEkI0cH_rK4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEkI0cH_rK4
hnbad 5y ago
For context for those unfamiliar with German dialects: dubbing a stereotypical Black person with a Bavarian accent in German is the cultural equivalent of dubbing them with a German or Swedish accent in English. Of course the joke mostly works because it lampshades bigoted cultural assumptions about race in Germany: a lot of Germans in the 1990s said "Afro-Amerikaner" when they meant Black (regardless of nationality, even Germans) because they thought it was more "politically correct" and the thought a Black person might be a native citizen never occurred to them. This has improved somewhat over the years but since the film was originally released in 1980, I doubt the cultural awareness was any better at the time. To be clear: I'm not saying the joke is bigoted, I'm saying the joke worked because it played off bigoted assumptions.
- mewpmewp2 5y ago
  I was from Europe, but not from Germany. I was also taught to call black people "afro americans". It didn't makes sense, but apparently this was thought of as the only right thing to do.
  - hnbad 5y ago
    I think the unspoken assumption was that Black people only exist in the US or Africa, partially because many people would have likely seen or interacted with so few Black people in real life that their main reference frame are Hollywood movies and North American television shows. I don't think I heard the phrase "Afrodeutsch" (Afro-German) until well into the 2000s and one of the kids in my class in the 1990s was Black. I even remember thinking he must be American because of that. I think there was a period of general confusion in the 1980s and 1990s around what language to use as the German words "Mohr" (originally from "Mauretania") and the German equivalent of the n-word became socially unacceptable and there was a widely held belief that referencing skin color directly was also unacceptable because of a lack of understanding about the actual underlying reasons for this language change (i.e. bigotry and power structures). There's a general sense of detachment I think because this discussion is usually framed in terms of language use rather than actual oppression because Black people are rarely even acknowledged to exist.
- vidarh 5y ago
  My ex-wife is black African, and we live in the UK, and she's on a number of occasions had white British people "correct" her when she described herself as black and offer up "African American" instead. At which point she'd tell them in no uncertain terms how annoyed that made her exactly because they were either blindly parroting something without thinking about what they were saying or making assumptions about her background rather than asking (as well as, of course, implying they have a right to impose on her how she should describe herself).
  - OJFord 5y ago
    Can I take the opportunity to ask how she feels about 'person of colour'? I find it absurd, a ridiculous beat about the bush, that was never necessary growing up having friends who were 'black' and that was a fine description just like I'm 'white', what of it, and indeed closer back to (what was then at least) the out of favour/racist/not politically correct 'coloured'. But as I said, I'm white, so it's not up to me, and if that's really what people prefer then fine - but I have the impression that it's a predominantly American (I mostly only 'hear' it online) turn of phrase, that's spilled over a bit sure, but generally not used/preferred here?
    - pipe2devnull 5y ago
      Another white person here but I think it's probably a useful term since it's more broad. Saying black is specific but person of color just means not white.
      - OJFord 5y ago
        Is it used more broadly though? I've never heard it (self-describingly) from anyone of (East/West/incl. Indian subc.) Asian descent for example.
        stephenhuey 5y ago
        Yes, by many, if not all. https://dailynorthwestern.com/2019/01/31/opinion/the-spectrum-saying-asians-arent-people-of-color-is-oppression-in-itself/ https://dailynorthwestern.com/2019/01/31/opinion/the-spectru... https://www.stanforddaily.com/2021/03/29/opiniondiscovering-i-was-a-person-of-color/ https://www.stanforddaily.com/2021/03/29/opiniondiscovering-... https://www.npr.org/transcripts/918418825 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/918418825 https://scholarworks.uvm.edu/tvc/vol41/iss1/5/ https://scholarworks.uvm.edu/tvc/vol41/iss1/5/
- fllkwg 5y ago
  It's a direct translation from "African-American", which is similar to Italian-American or Irish-American. I think the latter two can also be applied to 2nd, 3rd, etc. generations, so there's no assumption about native citizen or not. Slurs like Goombah, Kraut, Mick are also applied to later generations (according to Hollywood movies).
  - hnbad 5y ago
    The point is they were Germans and called Black Germans "Afro-Amerikaner" even if none of their ancestors had ever sat foot in a US territory let alone been citizens. The implicit assumption was that because they were Black they couldn't be German. "Afrodeutsch" ("African-German") came significantly later. In Germany (and I know the equivalent is true for many other countries) the term "German" is racialized and often used in a way that Americans use "white". Americans are far more willing to call an African or Asian American simply "American" than Germans are to call an African or Asian German simply "German". Also nobody will care more about your distant ancestors being Italian or Norwegian than they will care about them being Swabian or Bavarian, but if you are non-white, you will always be treated as a foreigner even if you have a Bavarian accent.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
huseyinkeles 5y ago
I remember many years ago when I watched it with Turkish subtitles (or dubs, can't remember) that they translated the line "Have you ever been in a Turkish prison?" to Greek prison :D
- dspillett 5y ago
  That is pretty common in translations. For instance in Fawlty Towers Manuel (the much put-upon waiter) was from Barcelona, often said in a mildly derogatory (silly foreigner) manner as in “don't mind him, he's from Barcelona”. When translated to Spanish, Manuel was renamed Paolo and his origins were moved to Naples.
ohthehugemanate 5y ago
as a native english speaker and fluent german speaker... airplane is the only movie that is even BETTER in the dubbed version. The bavarian scene absolutely kills me.
- tarsinge 5y ago
  I'm French and I also find Airplane (and also other ZAZ movies and many 80 and 90's American comedies) to be way funnier in the local dubbed versions. It kind of add a layer of absurdity, dubbing writers and actors were really creative.
  - xattt 5y ago
    There’s a Russian dub of LOTR deliberately made to be absurd. As noted by the GP, this adds an additional layer/way for the movie to be enjoyed.

caminante 5y ago

Found it [0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEkI0cH_rK4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEkI0cH_rK4

hnbad 5y ago

For context for those unfamiliar with German dialects: dubbing a stereotypical Black person with a Bavarian accent in German is the cultural equivalent of dubbing them with a German or Swedish accent in English. Of course the joke mostly works because it lampshades bigoted cultural assumptions about race in Germany: a lot of Germans in the 1990s said "Afro-Amerikaner" when they meant Black (regardless of nationality, even Germans) because they thought it was more "politically correct" and the thought a Black person might be a native citizen never occurred to them. This has improved somewhat over the years but since the film was originally released in 1980, I doubt the cultural awareness was any better at the time. To be clear: I'm not saying the joke is bigoted, I'm saying the joke worked because it played off bigoted assumptions.

mewpmewp2 5y ago
I was from Europe, but not from Germany. I was also taught to call black people "afro americans". It didn't makes sense, but apparently this was thought of as the only right thing to do.
- hnbad 5y ago
  I think the unspoken assumption was that Black people only exist in the US or Africa, partially because many people would have likely seen or interacted with so few Black people in real life that their main reference frame are Hollywood movies and North American television shows. I don't think I heard the phrase "Afrodeutsch" (Afro-German) until well into the 2000s and one of the kids in my class in the 1990s was Black. I even remember thinking he must be American because of that. I think there was a period of general confusion in the 1980s and 1990s around what language to use as the German words "Mohr" (originally from "Mauretania") and the German equivalent of the n-word became socially unacceptable and there was a widely held belief that referencing skin color directly was also unacceptable because of a lack of understanding about the actual underlying reasons for this language change (i.e. bigotry and power structures). There's a general sense of detachment I think because this discussion is usually framed in terms of language use rather than actual oppression because Black people are rarely even acknowledged to exist.
vidarh 5y ago
My ex-wife is black African, and we live in the UK, and she's on a number of occasions had white British people "correct" her when she described herself as black and offer up "African American" instead. At which point she'd tell them in no uncertain terms how annoyed that made her exactly because they were either blindly parroting something without thinking about what they were saying or making assumptions about her background rather than asking (as well as, of course, implying they have a right to impose on her how she should describe herself).
- OJFord 5y ago
  Can I take the opportunity to ask how she feels about 'person of colour'? I find it absurd, a ridiculous beat about the bush, that was never necessary growing up having friends who were 'black' and that was a fine description just like I'm 'white', what of it, and indeed closer back to (what was then at least) the out of favour/racist/not politically correct 'coloured'. But as I said, I'm white, so it's not up to me, and if that's really what people prefer then fine - but I have the impression that it's a predominantly American (I mostly only 'hear' it online) turn of phrase, that's spilled over a bit sure, but generally not used/preferred here?
  - pipe2devnull 5y ago
    Another white person here but I think it's probably a useful term since it's more broad. Saying black is specific but person of color just means not white.
    - OJFord 5y ago
      Is it used more broadly though? I've never heard it (self-describingly) from anyone of (East/West/incl. Indian subc.) Asian descent for example.
      - stephenhuey 5y ago
        Yes, by many, if not all. https://dailynorthwestern.com/2019/01/31/opinion/the-spectrum-saying-asians-arent-people-of-color-is-oppression-in-itself/ https://dailynorthwestern.com/2019/01/31/opinion/the-spectru... https://www.stanforddaily.com/2021/03/29/opiniondiscovering-i-was-a-person-of-color/ https://www.stanforddaily.com/2021/03/29/opiniondiscovering-... https://www.npr.org/transcripts/918418825 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/918418825 https://scholarworks.uvm.edu/tvc/vol41/iss1/5/ https://scholarworks.uvm.edu/tvc/vol41/iss1/5/
fllkwg 5y ago
It's a direct translation from "African-American", which is similar to Italian-American or Irish-American. I think the latter two can also be applied to 2nd, 3rd, etc. generations, so there's no assumption about native citizen or not. Slurs like Goombah, Kraut, Mick are also applied to later generations (according to Hollywood movies).
- hnbad 5y ago
  The point is they were Germans and called Black Germans "Afro-Amerikaner" even if none of their ancestors had ever sat foot in a US territory let alone been citizens. The implicit assumption was that because they were Black they couldn't be German. "Afrodeutsch" ("African-German") came significantly later. In Germany (and I know the equivalent is true for many other countries) the term "German" is racialized and often used in a way that Americans use "white". Americans are far more willing to call an African or Asian American simply "American" than Germans are to call an African or Asian German simply "German". Also nobody will care more about your distant ancestors being Italian or Norwegian than they will care about them being Swabian or Bavarian, but if you are non-white, you will always be treated as a foreigner even if you have a Bavarian accent.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

huseyinkeles 5y ago

I remember many years ago when I watched it with Turkish subtitles (or dubs, can't remember) that they translated the line "Have you ever been in a Turkish prison?" to Greek prison :D

dspillett 5y ago
That is pretty common in translations. For instance in Fawlty Towers Manuel (the much put-upon waiter) was from Barcelona, often said in a mildly derogatory (silly foreigner) manner as in “don't mind him, he's from Barcelona”. When translated to Spanish, Manuel was renamed Paolo and his origins were moved to Naples.

ohthehugemanate 5y ago

as a native english speaker and fluent german speaker... airplane is the only movie that is even BETTER in the dubbed version. The bavarian scene absolutely kills me.

tarsinge 5y ago
I'm French and I also find Airplane (and also other ZAZ movies and many 80 and 90's American comedies) to be way funnier in the local dubbed versions. It kind of add a layer of absurdity, dubbing writers and actors were really creative.
- xattt 5y ago
  There’s a Russian dub of LOTR deliberately made to be absurd. As noted by the GP, this adds an additional layer/way for the movie to be enjoyed.