5 ms·

I come at it from the other direction, I’m constantly in awe of the fact that I don’t even know the names of my great great grandparents. I know generally where

I come at it from the other direction, I’m constantly in awe of the fact that I don’t even know the names of my great great grandparents. I know generally where they lived and I can assume what they did for a living, but I know nothing more. How do we know so little about things that were a mere 5-10 generations ago? We don’t even know the kinds of foods and drinks that existed 40 generations ago? We are the first generation ever to have a permanent digital paper trail and it scares the hell out of me. We’re meant to be forgotten.

jhugo 5y ago
What permanent digital paper trail? I've been on this internet since the mid 90s and most of what I remember from those years has vanished without a trace. Seems to me that information in the digital world is at least as ephemeral as what came before.
HPsquared 5y ago
It's okay, the future humans in their mud huts won't be able to read the data.
iso1631 5y ago
> We are the first generation ever to have a permanent digital paper trail and it scares the hell out of me. We’re meant to be forgotten. What scares me is in 100 years time there will be far less known about 2000-2020 than 1980-2000 I've got 200 year olds pieces of paper in my house, I've got letters and photos from 50 years ago. I have hardly anything left from 2003 (when I started using a digital camera) through 2010 (when I started using an iphone, and it's all on icloud) In the unlikely event apple still exists, and still does this type of storage, It's unlikely anyone will still be paying for my icloud service in 2120. Perversely, digital data that's abandoned degrades far more than analog data.
- busyant 5y ago
  > Perversely, digital data that's abandoned degrades far more than analog data On top of that, I've got 30,000+ digital photos, and I can never find the one that I'm looking for. I have document-dumped myself.
  - thebean11 5y ago
    That's a solvable problem, searching images is one of the things ML is already pretty good at. I understand if giving Google your photos is a nonstarter, but have you tried putting them in Google Photos? You can search by face and by objects in the photo.
    - busyant 5y ago
      Thank you. I keep my photos out of the cloud, but it's helpful to know that this is an option.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  different take: there wont be anything left from 1980 to 2000 era either as it will be burnt to ashes by the subsequent generations who could not accept what was said before they were born.
  - SyzygistSix 5y ago
    If the world is on fire 80 years from now, I kind of don't blame the survivors for deciding to hide all the dangerous learning from the time that nearly destroyed the world. I don't agree with it but there's a possibility that particular fantasy/scifi scenario will come to pass. As a young person during the Cold War, I was not particularly enamored of technology due to the fear of nuclear destruction, the environmental destruction all around me, and the prevalence of suburbs.
- eru 5y ago
  Don't worry, we leave enough garbage for future archaeologists to dig through. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden
eesmith 5y ago
If it interests you, there are a number of genealogy resources where you might be able to track down those names and perhaps learn more about what they did. One resource is your local library. My local one has a genealogy group that meets every month. Your github.io page says you are in Houston. Here's details from your local libarary: https://houstonlibrary.org/genealogy-7314 https://houstonlibrary.org/genealogy-7314 . Tomorrow there's the online event "Clayton Library Presents: Discovering Your Female Ancestors - Genealogy" at 2pm - https://houstonlibrary.libcal.com/event/8125372 https://houstonlibrary.libcal.com/event/8125372 On Friday there's another online event, "Clayton Library Presents - Did I Get Everything? - Genealogy" - https://houstonlibrary.libcal.com/event/7992172 https://houstonlibrary.libcal.com/event/7992172 .
vidarh 5y ago
> I’m constantly in awe of the fact that I don’t even know the names of my great great grandparents. > ... > How do we know so little about things that were a mere 5-10 generations ago? I share your overall point. But to this part specifically, if you haven't looked (if you want to try looking into your great great grandparents and want recommendations for a few places to search, I'd be happy to help) you'd be surprised how much is available. Genealogy is easier than ever, thanks to vast amounts of digitised information. Between half a dozen sites or so you can dig into censuses and church records and newspaper records going back hundreds of years. My dad did a lot of genealogy in the 1980's and 1990's, and spent a lot of time in archives looking at microfilm and paper records, but it took me just hours to fill in huge gaps via online records, from birth, marriage and death records dating back hundreds of years to minutiae like my grandfathers ads for his housepainting business in the 1960's, or ads for the drycleaning business descendants of some distant relatives who emigrated to the US midwest ran in the 30's, or pictures of the house in Brooklyn where my great great grandparents lived (and died) after emigrating. Even pictures of grave stones are being collected. Of course just how much people are able to dig up varies greatly. In fact I just heard back from ta granddaughter of my grandmothers half-brother online after tracking down her mother via records searches, and then finding the daughter via Facebook... Of course there are still huge, gaping gaps, but there's also still a huge amount of information about the "recent" past (last few hundred years) locked up in paper archives that are still not easily searchable.
JohnWhigham 5y ago
It's less permanent than you think. Link rot is a serious problem. News articles from as little as year ago are sometimes broken.
Amezarak 5y ago
People used to attach much more importance to family history. As best as I can tell, that changed sometime in the 20th century. It was not uncommon prior to that for people to know not just the names but detailed stories and lives of their ancestors going back several generations.
eru 5y ago
> We are the first generation ever to have a permanent digital paper trail and it scares the hell out of me. We’re meant to be forgotten. Don't put too much store in our digital records. We don't know yet how permanent they'll turn out to be. But: we are producing absolutely giant piles of rubbish. Glass, cans and plastics don't decays quickly. So there'll be plenty for future archaeologists to dig through. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden (Of course, many aluminum cans will be recycled, because they are worth enough to do that. Less so far plastic with current technology, and it'll likely never be useful to recycle glass.)

jhugo 5y ago

What permanent digital paper trail? I've been on this internet since the mid 90s and most of what I remember from those years has vanished without a trace. Seems to me that information in the digital world is at least as ephemeral as what came before.

HPsquared 5y ago

It's okay, the future humans in their mud huts won't be able to read the data.

iso1631 5y ago

> We are the first generation ever to have a permanent digital paper trail and it scares the hell out of me. We’re meant to be forgotten. What scares me is in 100 years time there will be far less known about 2000-2020 than 1980-2000 I've got 200 year olds pieces of paper in my house, I've got letters and photos from 50 years ago. I have hardly anything left from 2003 (when I started using a digital camera) through 2010 (when I started using an iphone, and it's all on icloud) In the unlikely event apple still exists, and still does this type of storage, It's unlikely anyone will still be paying for my icloud service in 2120. Perversely, digital data that's abandoned degrades far more than analog data.

busyant 5y ago
> Perversely, digital data that's abandoned degrades far more than analog data On top of that, I've got 30,000+ digital photos, and I can never find the one that I'm looking for. I have document-dumped myself.
- thebean11 5y ago
  That's a solvable problem, searching images is one of the things ML is already pretty good at. I understand if giving Google your photos is a nonstarter, but have you tried putting them in Google Photos? You can search by face and by objects in the photo.
  - busyant 5y ago
    Thank you. I keep my photos out of the cloud, but it's helpful to know that this is an option.
ekianjo 5y ago
different take: there wont be anything left from 1980 to 2000 era either as it will be burnt to ashes by the subsequent generations who could not accept what was said before they were born.
- SyzygistSix 5y ago
  If the world is on fire 80 years from now, I kind of don't blame the survivors for deciding to hide all the dangerous learning from the time that nearly destroyed the world. I don't agree with it but there's a possibility that particular fantasy/scifi scenario will come to pass. As a young person during the Cold War, I was not particularly enamored of technology due to the fear of nuclear destruction, the environmental destruction all around me, and the prevalence of suburbs.
eru 5y ago
Don't worry, we leave enough garbage for future archaeologists to dig through. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden

eesmith 5y ago

If it interests you, there are a number of genealogy resources where you might be able to track down those names and perhaps learn more about what they did. One resource is your local library. My local one has a genealogy group that meets every month. Your github.io page says you are in Houston. Here's details from your local libarary: https://houstonlibrary.org/genealogy-7314 https://houstonlibrary.org/genealogy-7314 . Tomorrow there's the online event "Clayton Library Presents: Discovering Your Female Ancestors - Genealogy" at 2pm - https://houstonlibrary.libcal.com/event/8125372 https://houstonlibrary.libcal.com/event/8125372 On Friday there's another online event, "Clayton Library Presents - Did I Get Everything? - Genealogy" - https://houstonlibrary.libcal.com/event/7992172 https://houstonlibrary.libcal.com/event/7992172 .

vidarh 5y ago

> I’m constantly in awe of the fact that I don’t even know the names of my great great grandparents. > ... > How do we know so little about things that were a mere 5-10 generations ago? I share your overall point. But to this part specifically, if you haven't looked (if you want to try looking into your great great grandparents and want recommendations for a few places to search, I'd be happy to help) you'd be surprised how much is available. Genealogy is easier than ever, thanks to vast amounts of digitised information. Between half a dozen sites or so you can dig into censuses and church records and newspaper records going back hundreds of years. My dad did a lot of genealogy in the 1980's and 1990's, and spent a lot of time in archives looking at microfilm and paper records, but it took me just hours to fill in huge gaps via online records, from birth, marriage and death records dating back hundreds of years to minutiae like my grandfathers ads for his housepainting business in the 1960's, or ads for the drycleaning business descendants of some distant relatives who emigrated to the US midwest ran in the 30's, or pictures of the house in Brooklyn where my great great grandparents lived (and died) after emigrating. Even pictures of grave stones are being collected. Of course just how much people are able to dig up varies greatly. In fact I just heard back from ta granddaughter of my grandmothers half-brother online after tracking down her mother via records searches, and then finding the daughter via Facebook... Of course there are still huge, gaping gaps, but there's also still a huge amount of information about the "recent" past (last few hundred years) locked up in paper archives that are still not easily searchable.

JohnWhigham 5y ago

It's less permanent than you think. Link rot is a serious problem. News articles from as little as year ago are sometimes broken.

Amezarak 5y ago

People used to attach much more importance to family history. As best as I can tell, that changed sometime in the 20th century. It was not uncommon prior to that for people to know not just the names but detailed stories and lives of their ancestors going back several generations.

eru 5y ago

> We are the first generation ever to have a permanent digital paper trail and it scares the hell out of me. We’re meant to be forgotten. Don't put too much store in our digital records. We don't know yet how permanent they'll turn out to be. But: we are producing absolutely giant piles of rubbish. Glass, cans and plastics don't decays quickly. So there'll be plenty for future archaeologists to dig through. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden (Of course, many aluminum cans will be recycled, because they are worth enough to do that. Less so far plastic with current technology, and it'll likely never be useful to recycle glass.)