4 ms·

If you are looking for a serious answer, vandalism is generally explained as a response to a social hierachy. When you feel you are at the bottom of the pile in

by bloqs 5y ago

If you are looking for a serious answer, vandalism is generally explained as a response to a social hierachy. When you feel you are at the bottom of the pile in relation to others around you, it has a variety of psychological effects. One of the most notable is that it increases your impulsivity and irrationality, and also causes you to feel "judged" by other people simply being near you, even inanimate objects feel like a judgement (a nice car you can never afford, a building made to a high standard with so much visible cost it's insulting to your very existence). One reaction people can have to this is they can try to "dominate" their environment in the way it makes them feel dominated. Instead of facing the near impossible task of climbing the hierachy, they simply look to impulsively destroy it where possible.

worrycue 5y ago
> vandalism is generally explained as a response to a social hierachy Japan is even more hierarchical than the US. Their vending machines are fine.
- m4rtink 5y ago
  You would thinks so! But one time in the middle of Shinsekai in Osaka I've seen a trash can for drink cans full of regular trash - oh, the horror! ;-) On related note, Shinsekai is nice - it remainded as a bit of back home & the hostels there are super cheap. :-)
- bloqs 5y ago
  This is a canny observation, but not entirely complete. Japan has incredibly low unemployment, even lower rates of juvenile delinquency, homelessness and drug abuse. "Being more hierarchical" isn't really meaningful if you look at the core differences. The West is far more severe in its application of competitive consumerism, where inequality is supposed to act as a motivator.
- handrous 5y ago
  I think the answer might be that the lowest large portion of their society—aside from some marginalized groups and outliers, talking the broad base of their social pyramid—is their working class, not something else even lower. There's enough affinity or in-group feeling among the working class that it's not divided into a whole bunch of categories, with some very low ones indeed that are very clearly and visibly way under the top of that stratum, but into a smaller set that still consider each other fairly similar and "one of us", for where-am-I-on-the-social-hierarchy purposes. (pure speculation)
- heurisko 5y ago
  It could be that the relevant thing is the absolute position of the lowest rung of the hierarchy. In that case, the lowest rung of Japanese hierarchy could still be much higher than that in the US.
  - porknubbins 5y ago
    I’m not convinced social heirarchy/inequality causes vandalism as much as bored teenage deliquents do. I can’t picture a bunch of tired fast food workers who can’t wait to get off their shift and smash a coke machine or tag walls. Having lived in Japan my theory is that there is a much tighter social fabric and there is always someone watching. Japan has plenty of delinquents but there is always a slightly higher more responsible delinquent to go “hey idiot vandalism isn’t cool” (or a nosy neighbor to call the local cops who will find the perps family. And the ostracism can be instant and brutal in a way that isn’t really even possible in middle class America because we do not rely on the social fabric or reputation anymore since we are a fairly low trust society.
- WastingMyTime89 5y ago
  Japan unemployment rate is 2.97%. They are basically gifting jobs to people who would be left behind in the USA. It's easier to have a peaceful society when nobody feels excluded from it.
bserge 5y ago
Makes a lot of sense, although in the end it only affects others on the same level in the hierarchy rather than those higher.
im3w1l 5y ago
How does stomping on sandcastles fit into this? How does griefing in minecraft fit in? I think some people just intrinsically love destroying things. This impulse is then more or less moderated by social norms in various groups.
hyperpallium2 5y ago
Is the instinct for rebellion irrational, or the instinct for tyranny?
MrPatan 5y ago
If you can't make, you break.
fy20 5y ago
In my (post-Soviet) country the only vandalism is people putting stickers on drain pipes, and the occasional grafiti - but usually it's art, not just random drawing on stuff. Once I saw a plastic bin burned to the ground, but that could have been from someone who had put a cigarette in it accidentally. My city feels very safe and there is little vandalism, but nobody is really well off. Everyone complains they have no money, rent is too expensive, salaries are too low, fuel is too expensive, etc. I guess it's because nearly everyone feels like that here, there isn't a 'poor' vs 'middle class'. On the other hand you do get 'new money' driving their G-wagens and Porsche Taycans, so it's not that there isn't a social heirarchy.
Tabular-Iceberg 5y ago
It’s the mixture of resentment from material disadvantage and sense of entitlement from cultural dominance. It’s a side effect of how the Bohemian and associated cultural movements have dominated the west for the last century or so. They claim to still be the counter culture, but really they are the cultural elite and have been for a long time. Of course it gets lost on people that you need to actually be a great artist and not just a deadbeat with a spray can. You feel you know better than everyone else what good urban aesthetics are supposed to look like, but you lack the means to create anything other than nonsensical scribbles on the walls. That’s also why we see it in the west and not so much in Japan as another user pointed out.

by bloqs 5y ago

worrycue 5y ago

> vandalism is generally explained as a response to a social hierachy Japan is even more hierarchical than the US. Their vending machines are fine.

m4rtink 5y ago
You would thinks so! But one time in the middle of Shinsekai in Osaka I've seen a trash can for drink cans full of regular trash - oh, the horror! ;-) On related note, Shinsekai is nice - it remainded as a bit of back home & the hostels there are super cheap. :-)
bloqs 5y ago
This is a canny observation, but not entirely complete. Japan has incredibly low unemployment, even lower rates of juvenile delinquency, homelessness and drug abuse. "Being more hierarchical" isn't really meaningful if you look at the core differences. The West is far more severe in its application of competitive consumerism, where inequality is supposed to act as a motivator.
handrous 5y ago
I think the answer might be that the lowest large portion of their society—aside from some marginalized groups and outliers, talking the broad base of their social pyramid—is their working class, not something else even lower. There's enough affinity or in-group feeling among the working class that it's not divided into a whole bunch of categories, with some very low ones indeed that are very clearly and visibly way under the top of that stratum, but into a smaller set that still consider each other fairly similar and "one of us", for where-am-I-on-the-social-hierarchy purposes. (pure speculation)
heurisko 5y ago
It could be that the relevant thing is the absolute position of the lowest rung of the hierarchy. In that case, the lowest rung of Japanese hierarchy could still be much higher than that in the US.
- porknubbins 5y ago
  I’m not convinced social heirarchy/inequality causes vandalism as much as bored teenage deliquents do. I can’t picture a bunch of tired fast food workers who can’t wait to get off their shift and smash a coke machine or tag walls. Having lived in Japan my theory is that there is a much tighter social fabric and there is always someone watching. Japan has plenty of delinquents but there is always a slightly higher more responsible delinquent to go “hey idiot vandalism isn’t cool” (or a nosy neighbor to call the local cops who will find the perps family. And the ostracism can be instant and brutal in a way that isn’t really even possible in middle class America because we do not rely on the social fabric or reputation anymore since we are a fairly low trust society.
WastingMyTime89 5y ago
Japan unemployment rate is 2.97%. They are basically gifting jobs to people who would be left behind in the USA. It's easier to have a peaceful society when nobody feels excluded from it.

bserge 5y ago

Makes a lot of sense, although in the end it only affects others on the same level in the hierarchy rather than those higher.

im3w1l 5y ago

How does stomping on sandcastles fit into this? How does griefing in minecraft fit in? I think some people just intrinsically love destroying things. This impulse is then more or less moderated by social norms in various groups.

hyperpallium2 5y ago

Is the instinct for rebellion irrational, or the instinct for tyranny?

MrPatan 5y ago

If you can't make, you break.

fy20 5y ago

In my (post-Soviet) country the only vandalism is people putting stickers on drain pipes, and the occasional grafiti - but usually it's art, not just random drawing on stuff. Once I saw a plastic bin burned to the ground, but that could have been from someone who had put a cigarette in it accidentally. My city feels very safe and there is little vandalism, but nobody is really well off. Everyone complains they have no money, rent is too expensive, salaries are too low, fuel is too expensive, etc. I guess it's because nearly everyone feels like that here, there isn't a 'poor' vs 'middle class'. On the other hand you do get 'new money' driving their G-wagens and Porsche Taycans, so it's not that there isn't a social heirarchy.

Tabular-Iceberg 5y ago

It’s the mixture of resentment from material disadvantage and sense of entitlement from cultural dominance. It’s a side effect of how the Bohemian and associated cultural movements have dominated the west for the last century or so. They claim to still be the counter culture, but really they are the cultural elite and have been for a long time. Of course it gets lost on people that you need to actually be a great artist and not just a deadbeat with a spray can. You feel you know better than everyone else what good urban aesthetics are supposed to look like, but you lack the means to create anything other than nonsensical scribbles on the walls. That’s also why we see it in the west and not so much in Japan as another user pointed out.