7 ms·

I never understand why people try to make this point. It’s pretty obvious covid comes in waves. Florida is now on the downswing of the delta wave. At its peak i

I never understand why people try to make this point. It’s pretty obvious covid comes in waves. Florida is now on the downswing of the delta wave. At its peak it had more than twice deaths per capita than California (arguably the most restrictive state).

AndrewBissell 5y ago
No one really seemed to care about these fine points when they were comparing case rates between the southern states in the peak of their regular late-summer wave and the rest of the country and attributing the difference to vaccination rates.
- jasonlaramburu 5y ago
  I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make. Florida had more than double the per capita deaths than California during the delta wave. It also has lower vaccination rates.
  - nickthemagicman 5y ago
    Florida has way more older people per Capita which are more vulnerable to Covid. So that accounts for the deaths. But why are new cases so low in a place with very few vaccinated and no Covid restrictions? You would think they would be sky high!
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > > Florida had more than double the per capita deaths than California during the delta wave. > Florida has way more older people per Capita which are more vulnerable to Covid. > So that accounts for the deaths. No, it doesn't. Florida has less than a time and a half the 65+ population share that California has; while it might account for a higher death rate, it doesn't account for a more than double death rate, and it especially doesn’t explain an even greater discrepancy in the death:case rate than the death:population rate. > But why are new cases so low in a place with very few vaccinated and no Covid restrictions? Because COVID precautions (vaccination, voluntary testing without hospitalization, etc.) are mutually correlated, and so Florida has less likelihood of detecting cases that don't involve hospitalization; it also means cases that eventually require hospitalization are detected later with less early intervention. Which explains why Florida has, compared to other states, a low detected case rate, but a middle of the road hospitalization rate, and a very high death rate.
      - nickthemagicman 5y ago
        Florida has the second highest per Capita number of old people in the country. California is one of the lowest at number 45. So while you're right...by not using per Capita numbers... you're presenting your data in a very disengenuous and truth distorting way. Its like saying India has more old people than Burbank. Well yeah no shit.. India has a billion people. You claim less testing is the reason? That's a simple fix..look at positivity rate. Should be sky high if all the testing is coming from FL hospitals as you claim and also eliminates variations in testing numbers. Guess what STILL less than California. Guess what positivity rate at the BOTTOM of all states. Here's actual references instead of just whatever feels good to say. Could the natural immune system not be an Alex Jones conspiracy after all???!!!!! https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/covid-19-testing https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/covid-19-testing https://www.prb.org/resources/which-us-states-are-the-oldest/ https://www.prb.org/resources/which-us-states-are-the-oldest...
        jasonlaramburu 5y ago
        > Florida has the second highest per Capita number of old people in the country This isn’t a great excuse for Florida’s death rate. Maine has the highest per capita elderly population in the US and the 3rd lowest COVID death rate. Sure it’s got a lower population density, however: 25% of elderly (65+) Americans live in Florida, Texas and California. California had 1/2 the death rate of Florida and 3/4 that of Texas. All warm climates, all high population density. The only difference was California’s restrictions and higher vaccination rate. It’s hard to see how Florida’s policy was more effective, particularly with regard to protecting its elderly.
        nickthemagicman 5y ago
        >>The only difference was California’s restrictions and higher vaccination rate False. We literally just went over this... Florida is the second oldest state in the country and the oldest with a high population density which means it's old people stacked on old people. California is the fifth youngest state in the country, so there's a level of herd immunity already existing there as young people under 55 are virtually untouched by Covid.(more people died of car accidents in 2019 than under 55 age group in the entire pandemic) Its been clear from the start that this disease is bimodal and kills old people at a shockingly high rate and the under 55 at a shockingly low rate. Old people are the difference... not vaccinations (which don't work that well,see Colin Powell/ Ireland/this paper) or restrictions. But it's better to avoid this fact because it calls your narrative under question and makes it less certain why you injected experimental substances in your body in the first place. All of this was to save Granny remember?
    - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
      > But why are new cases so low As common sense would dictate, it’s because enough people have either gotten delta or gotten the vaccine. Florida had the highest per capita death rate during Delta. Hard to see how their approach was a success.
      - nickthemagicman 5y ago
        You have no evidence for that. Florida has the highest per Capita elderly population in the U.S. except for Maine who has way less population density. Having a larger population of people who die from the virus means you're going to have more people who die from the virus. Its what common sense would dictate.
        jasonlaramburu 5y ago
        Let's look at it another way just for fun. 40,689 Floridians over age 65 have died of COVID [1]. If Florida had the same % of over 65 residents as California does (14.3%) [2], we would expect to see 28,245 >age 65 deaths in Florida. This would give Florida an overall COVID death rate of 201 deaths per 100,000 people. This is still higher than the actual overall death rate in California (179 deaths per 100,00 people)[3]. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Se... [2] https://www.prb.org/resources/which-us-states-are-the-oldest/ https://www.prb.org/resources/which-us-states-are-the-oldest... [3] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covi...
- nickthemagicman 5y ago
  Exactly. Covid pushers are so disengenuous. Reference things when it suits them and ignore them when it doesn't. Truth is not the goal. Religion is.
  - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
    Right, the Ivermectin crowd is totally data driven
    - nickthemagicman 5y ago
      Ivermectin won the Nobel prize. Here's a science article for ya. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016635422... There's actually way more science behind ivermectin than that experimental substance from moderna you had injected in your body. So I'm confused is the slogan: "trust the science"? Or is the slogan: "trust the science that supports your narrative"?
      - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
        The creators of Ivermectin won the Nobel for its applications in treating parasites, not COVID-19. The Caly et al paper you cite is based on a cell culture (in vitro) experiment, not a clinical trial. No human subjects were tested, and subsequent researchers have had difficulty recreating the observed result. Virtually all other studies supporting ivermectin's use against COVID-19 have been shown to have serious flaws. To quote a review,"Research related to ivermectin in COVID-19 has serious methodological limitations resulting in very low certainty of the evidence, and continues to grow." [1] If the Ivermectin crowd were really interested in finding an effective oral treatment for COVID-19, and not just manipulating a political prop, why are they silent on Molnupiravir, which has been shown to be effective in clinical trials [2]? [1] https://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/05/26/bmjebm-2021-111678 https://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/05/26/bmjebm-2021-111... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8219109/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8219109/

AndrewBissell 5y ago

No one really seemed to care about these fine points when they were comparing case rates between the southern states in the peak of their regular late-summer wave and the rest of the country and attributing the difference to vaccination rates.

jasonlaramburu 5y ago
I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make. Florida had more than double the per capita deaths than California during the delta wave. It also has lower vaccination rates.
- nickthemagicman 5y ago
  Florida has way more older people per Capita which are more vulnerable to Covid. So that accounts for the deaths. But why are new cases so low in a place with very few vaccinated and no Covid restrictions? You would think they would be sky high!
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > > Florida had more than double the per capita deaths than California during the delta wave. > Florida has way more older people per Capita which are more vulnerable to Covid. > So that accounts for the deaths. No, it doesn't. Florida has less than a time and a half the 65+ population share that California has; while it might account for a higher death rate, it doesn't account for a more than double death rate, and it especially doesn’t explain an even greater discrepancy in the death:case rate than the death:population rate. > But why are new cases so low in a place with very few vaccinated and no Covid restrictions? Because COVID precautions (vaccination, voluntary testing without hospitalization, etc.) are mutually correlated, and so Florida has less likelihood of detecting cases that don't involve hospitalization; it also means cases that eventually require hospitalization are detected later with less early intervention. Which explains why Florida has, compared to other states, a low detected case rate, but a middle of the road hospitalization rate, and a very high death rate.
    - nickthemagicman 5y ago
      Florida has the second highest per Capita number of old people in the country. California is one of the lowest at number 45. So while you're right...by not using per Capita numbers... you're presenting your data in a very disengenuous and truth distorting way. Its like saying India has more old people than Burbank. Well yeah no shit.. India has a billion people. You claim less testing is the reason? That's a simple fix..look at positivity rate. Should be sky high if all the testing is coming from FL hospitals as you claim and also eliminates variations in testing numbers. Guess what STILL less than California. Guess what positivity rate at the BOTTOM of all states. Here's actual references instead of just whatever feels good to say. Could the natural immune system not be an Alex Jones conspiracy after all???!!!!! https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/covid-19-testing https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/covid-19-testing https://www.prb.org/resources/which-us-states-are-the-oldest/ https://www.prb.org/resources/which-us-states-are-the-oldest...
      - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
        > Florida has the second highest per Capita number of old people in the country This isn’t a great excuse for Florida’s death rate. Maine has the highest per capita elderly population in the US and the 3rd lowest COVID death rate. Sure it’s got a lower population density, however: 25% of elderly (65+) Americans live in Florida, Texas and California. California had 1/2 the death rate of Florida and 3/4 that of Texas. All warm climates, all high population density. The only difference was California’s restrictions and higher vaccination rate. It’s hard to see how Florida’s policy was more effective, particularly with regard to protecting its elderly.
        nickthemagicman 5y ago
        >>The only difference was California’s restrictions and higher vaccination rate False. We literally just went over this... Florida is the second oldest state in the country and the oldest with a high population density which means it's old people stacked on old people. California is the fifth youngest state in the country, so there's a level of herd immunity already existing there as young people under 55 are virtually untouched by Covid.(more people died of car accidents in 2019 than under 55 age group in the entire pandemic) Its been clear from the start that this disease is bimodal and kills old people at a shockingly high rate and the under 55 at a shockingly low rate. Old people are the difference... not vaccinations (which don't work that well,see Colin Powell/ Ireland/this paper) or restrictions. But it's better to avoid this fact because it calls your narrative under question and makes it less certain why you injected experimental substances in your body in the first place. All of this was to save Granny remember?
  - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
    > But why are new cases so low As common sense would dictate, it’s because enough people have either gotten delta or gotten the vaccine. Florida had the highest per capita death rate during Delta. Hard to see how their approach was a success.
    - nickthemagicman 5y ago
      You have no evidence for that. Florida has the highest per Capita elderly population in the U.S. except for Maine who has way less population density. Having a larger population of people who die from the virus means you're going to have more people who die from the virus. Its what common sense would dictate.
      - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
        Let's look at it another way just for fun. 40,689 Floridians over age 65 have died of COVID [1]. If Florida had the same % of over 65 residents as California does (14.3%) [2], we would expect to see 28,245 >age 65 deaths in Florida. This would give Florida an overall COVID death rate of 201 deaths per 100,000 people. This is still higher than the actual overall death rate in California (179 deaths per 100,00 people)[3]. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Se... [2] https://www.prb.org/resources/which-us-states-are-the-oldest/ https://www.prb.org/resources/which-us-states-are-the-oldest... [3] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covi...
nickthemagicman 5y ago
Exactly. Covid pushers are so disengenuous. Reference things when it suits them and ignore them when it doesn't. Truth is not the goal. Religion is.
- jasonlaramburu 5y ago
  Right, the Ivermectin crowd is totally data driven
  - nickthemagicman 5y ago
    Ivermectin won the Nobel prize. Here's a science article for ya. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016635422... There's actually way more science behind ivermectin than that experimental substance from moderna you had injected in your body. So I'm confused is the slogan: "trust the science"? Or is the slogan: "trust the science that supports your narrative"?
    - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
      The creators of Ivermectin won the Nobel for its applications in treating parasites, not COVID-19. The Caly et al paper you cite is based on a cell culture (in vitro) experiment, not a clinical trial. No human subjects were tested, and subsequent researchers have had difficulty recreating the observed result. Virtually all other studies supporting ivermectin's use against COVID-19 have been shown to have serious flaws. To quote a review,"Research related to ivermectin in COVID-19 has serious methodological limitations resulting in very low certainty of the evidence, and continues to grow." [1] If the Ivermectin crowd were really interested in finding an effective oral treatment for COVID-19, and not just manipulating a political prop, why are they silent on Molnupiravir, which has been shown to be effective in clinical trials [2]? [1] https://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/05/26/bmjebm-2021-111678 https://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/05/26/bmjebm-2021-111... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8219109/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8219109/