8 ms·

Court allows Samsung Galaxy Tab to again sell in Europe

131 points by tilt 15y ago

iwwr 15y ago
Is there going to be disruptive tech that can eliminate the political advantage of these IP thugs (rent-seekers) ? Perhaps ultra-cheap manufacturing?
- orangecat 15y ago
  Ha. If you think the current round of IP wars is insane, just wait until we have cheap and effective 3d printers.
  - iwwr 15y ago
    It's much easier to target companies and a few key manufacturers, than millions of home printers.
    - bergie 15y ago
      Exactly, home printers will be about as hard to target as torrenters, except that there is even less network trace to be used
      - roc 15y ago
        They'll trace via downloads/torrents of the plans, natch.
  - levesque 15y ago
    What for?
  - Natsu 15y ago
    I really hope that we can make printers that can copy themselves before the IP lawyers realize what they can be used for.
hucker 15y ago
If Apple did indeed fake some of the evidence, it will be interesting to see how Samsung chooses to retaliate. This surely has to border on anti-trust?
- ghurlman 15y ago
  No, just fraud.
davedx 15y ago
I'm getting pretty tired of these stories and tech companies in general. At the end of the day it's a touch screen that can connect to the Internet and run some software. When will the patent/IP madness end?
- sjs 15y ago
  I agree with you, but you have to admit Samsung is pretty clearly copying Apple's trade dress. It's the only tablet that could be confused with the iPad at a glance. Especially for non-geeks. If Apple weren't suing everyone else too they would have a lot more general credibility in my eyes. By suing everyone they just look scared of competition.
  - jsight 15y ago
    > I agree with you, but you have to admit Samsung is pretty > clearly copying Apple's trade dress. It's the only tablet > that could be confused with the iPad at a glance. I don't think I have to admit that. Is it really any more iPad like (at a glance) than this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/759029-REG/Motorola_00001NARGNLX_Xoom_Wi_Fi_10_1_Tablet.html http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/759029-REG/Motorola_00...
    - fredoliveira 15y ago
      He was talking about admitting that Samsung was copying Apple - which they are. But yes, yes it is more iPad like if you look at it from more angles than a shot from the top. The back is similar too, whereas that on the Xoom is not so much.
    - watty 15y ago
      No, to many non-geeks all tablets appear to be "iPads" and all touch screen phones "iPhones". Apple has had superior marketing and sales but they certainly weren't the first to use a touchscreen display. How many ways can you make a device with a touchscreen display? Can you imagine if this happened to TVs or computer monitors?
    - 15y ago
barista 15y ago
Too bad Jobs' reality distortion does not work on the european courts.
tylerneylon 15y ago
About the questionable evidence images: The actual Samsung aspect ratio (of the full device) is about 1.46, while the photo makes it look closer to 1.36. The iPad's image is more accurate at around 1.3. The vertical lines in the image (closer together around the Galaxy) probably make the aspect ratios appear even more similar. Here's a larger image of the evidence: http://blog.webwereld.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/screenshot-page-28.png http://blog.webwereld.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/screensh...
- weiran 15y ago
  It's not related to the dodgy photograph of the Tab.
BonoboBoner 15y ago
The funny thing is, this whole court decision has made me aware of the new GalaxyTab 10.1 in a way I would not have been if it was not for Apple's litigation. I checked out reviews on YouTube and compared it to the iPad, etc. Isnt it counter-productive for Apple to make customers aware of their competitor's products that way? A lot of customers are gonna think "If they are sueing them, that alternative tablet must be worth checkin out."
- technoslut 15y ago
  I doubt that any average user has any idea of what is going on. I'm sure their concerns lie elsewhere. Anyone willing to pay attention to this is a minority within a minority.
  - TorKlingberg 15y ago
    Actually, I saw this story on the general news. Major companies suing each other counts as somewhat newsworthy, and one of their products getting blocked like this definitely is.
    - technoslut 15y ago
      I've seen the same but when those stories are next to the debt crisis, high unemployment and the London riots, they will most likely concentrate on those stories first. To this day it surprises me how little the average person knows about technology. They know much more than a decade ago but it is still minute. EDIT: As a personal example, I have a kid sister, 13 years younger, who is in her third year at Cornell studying law and just had intern job at Google this summer in which she wrote a Google student blog post (Yes, I am very proud). She didn't know how to right-click using her Macbook. She can type like the wind and knows the features of every phone but she wan't aware of tapping two fingers on her trackpad. To me this is very representative of the average user today. They know enough to get by but don't have the depth of knowledge when it comes to the details. If they read a patent story I don't believe they would understand what they were reading unless there was a perceived gain to it.
mongol 15y ago
From the article: " this time suggesting that Apple misled the courts by offering altered images of Samsung’s Galaxy Tab". Isn't it amazing that the court can make such wide-reaching decisions just by looking at images, rather than the actual devices? It would not be a very complicated thing to present the physical devices as evidence in this kind of case.
- jonknee 15y ago
  Judges get really annoyed when lawyers try and play tricks like that. Get caught trying to fool a judge and you'll be on the losing side every time.
- ugh 15y ago
  They make that because the evidence is given under oath and it’s supposed to be a quick (and preliminary) decision. It’s also not the final decision. The evidence will be examined again at a later point in time and Apple is liable for all damages should the court decide against them at that point.
Isofarro 15y ago
1.) A German court lifted an injunction in the EU nations, except Germany itself 2.) Apple misled the courts by offering altered images of Samsung's Galaxy Tab. In the filed documents, the pictures of both the iPad and Galaxy Tab appear to be the same size. In reality, the Galaxy Tab uses a different sized screen and aspect ratio than Apple's tablet. Both of those datapoints are intriguing.
- othermaciej 15y ago
  Intriguing, but apparently not related to each other. The injunction was suspended outside Germany solely due to a dispute over whether the Düsseldorf district court has personal jurisdiction over Samsung Korea. http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/08/galaxy-tab-101-injunction-suspended-for.html http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/08/galaxy-tab-101-injun...
  - fpgeek 15y ago
    True, but IIRC the altered photographs are getting their day in court August 25th (Samsung's appeal of the now-limited injunction).
    - patrickyan 15y ago
      IIRC only one photograph was stretched, while the others were the correct aspect ratio.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]

131 points by tilt 15y ago

iwwr 15y ago

Is there going to be disruptive tech that can eliminate the political advantage of these IP thugs (rent-seekers) ? Perhaps ultra-cheap manufacturing?

orangecat 15y ago
Ha. If you think the current round of IP wars is insane, just wait until we have cheap and effective 3d printers.
- iwwr 15y ago
  It's much easier to target companies and a few key manufacturers, than millions of home printers.
  - bergie 15y ago
    Exactly, home printers will be about as hard to target as torrenters, except that there is even less network trace to be used
    - roc 15y ago
      They'll trace via downloads/torrents of the plans, natch.
- levesque 15y ago
  What for?
- Natsu 15y ago
  I really hope that we can make printers that can copy themselves before the IP lawyers realize what they can be used for.

hucker 15y ago

If Apple did indeed fake some of the evidence, it will be interesting to see how Samsung chooses to retaliate. This surely has to border on anti-trust?

ghurlman 15y ago
No, just fraud.

davedx 15y ago

I'm getting pretty tired of these stories and tech companies in general. At the end of the day it's a touch screen that can connect to the Internet and run some software. When will the patent/IP madness end?

sjs 15y ago
I agree with you, but you have to admit Samsung is pretty clearly copying Apple's trade dress. It's the only tablet that could be confused with the iPad at a glance. Especially for non-geeks. If Apple weren't suing everyone else too they would have a lot more general credibility in my eyes. By suing everyone they just look scared of competition.
- jsight 15y ago
  > I agree with you, but you have to admit Samsung is pretty > clearly copying Apple's trade dress. It's the only tablet > that could be confused with the iPad at a glance. I don't think I have to admit that. Is it really any more iPad like (at a glance) than this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/759029-REG/Motorola_00001NARGNLX_Xoom_Wi_Fi_10_1_Tablet.html http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/759029-REG/Motorola_00...
  - fredoliveira 15y ago
    He was talking about admitting that Samsung was copying Apple - which they are. But yes, yes it is more iPad like if you look at it from more angles than a shot from the top. The back is similar too, whereas that on the Xoom is not so much.
  - watty 15y ago
    No, to many non-geeks all tablets appear to be "iPads" and all touch screen phones "iPhones". Apple has had superior marketing and sales but they certainly weren't the first to use a touchscreen display. How many ways can you make a device with a touchscreen display? Can you imagine if this happened to TVs or computer monitors?
  - 15y ago

barista 15y ago

Too bad Jobs' reality distortion does not work on the european courts.

tylerneylon 15y ago

About the questionable evidence images: The actual Samsung aspect ratio (of the full device) is about 1.46, while the photo makes it look closer to 1.36. The iPad's image is more accurate at around 1.3. The vertical lines in the image (closer together around the Galaxy) probably make the aspect ratios appear even more similar. Here's a larger image of the evidence: http://blog.webwereld.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/screenshot-page-28.png http://blog.webwereld.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/screensh...

weiran 15y ago
It's not related to the dodgy photograph of the Tab.

BonoboBoner 15y ago

The funny thing is, this whole court decision has made me aware of the new GalaxyTab 10.1 in a way I would not have been if it was not for Apple's litigation. I checked out reviews on YouTube and compared it to the iPad, etc. Isnt it counter-productive for Apple to make customers aware of their competitor's products that way? A lot of customers are gonna think "If they are sueing them, that alternative tablet must be worth checkin out."

technoslut 15y ago
I doubt that any average user has any idea of what is going on. I'm sure their concerns lie elsewhere. Anyone willing to pay attention to this is a minority within a minority.
- TorKlingberg 15y ago
  Actually, I saw this story on the general news. Major companies suing each other counts as somewhat newsworthy, and one of their products getting blocked like this definitely is.
  - technoslut 15y ago
    I've seen the same but when those stories are next to the debt crisis, high unemployment and the London riots, they will most likely concentrate on those stories first. To this day it surprises me how little the average person knows about technology. They know much more than a decade ago but it is still minute. EDIT: As a personal example, I have a kid sister, 13 years younger, who is in her third year at Cornell studying law and just had intern job at Google this summer in which she wrote a Google student blog post (Yes, I am very proud). She didn't know how to right-click using her Macbook. She can type like the wind and knows the features of every phone but she wan't aware of tapping two fingers on her trackpad. To me this is very representative of the average user today. They know enough to get by but don't have the depth of knowledge when it comes to the details. If they read a patent story I don't believe they would understand what they were reading unless there was a perceived gain to it.

mongol 15y ago

From the article: " this time suggesting that Apple misled the courts by offering altered images of Samsung’s Galaxy Tab". Isn't it amazing that the court can make such wide-reaching decisions just by looking at images, rather than the actual devices? It would not be a very complicated thing to present the physical devices as evidence in this kind of case.

jonknee 15y ago
Judges get really annoyed when lawyers try and play tricks like that. Get caught trying to fool a judge and you'll be on the losing side every time.
ugh 15y ago
They make that because the evidence is given under oath and it’s supposed to be a quick (and preliminary) decision. It’s also not the final decision. The evidence will be examined again at a later point in time and Apple is liable for all damages should the court decide against them at that point.

Isofarro 15y ago

1.) A German court lifted an injunction in the EU nations, except Germany itself 2.) Apple misled the courts by offering altered images of Samsung's Galaxy Tab. In the filed documents, the pictures of both the iPad and Galaxy Tab appear to be the same size. In reality, the Galaxy Tab uses a different sized screen and aspect ratio than Apple's tablet. Both of those datapoints are intriguing.

othermaciej 15y ago
Intriguing, but apparently not related to each other. The injunction was suspended outside Germany solely due to a dispute over whether the Düsseldorf district court has personal jurisdiction over Samsung Korea. http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/08/galaxy-tab-101-injunction-suspended-for.html http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/08/galaxy-tab-101-injun...
- fpgeek 15y ago
  True, but IIRC the altered photographs are getting their day in court August 25th (Samsung's appeal of the now-limited injunction).
  - patrickyan 15y ago
    IIRC only one photograph was stretched, while the others were the correct aspect ratio.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]