7 ms·

> All the ports you could ever want I agree with everything else you said and I think overall these machines will be awesome. I would disagree with you on the

by cactus2093 5y ago

> All the ports you could ever want I agree with everything else you said and I think overall these machines will be awesome. I would disagree with you on the ports though, I think this is kind of a miss for Apple. They caved into some of the loudest complaints from several years ago which were already coming from a loud minority and that minority is now smaller than ever. And if they were set on changing the ports these certainly aren't all that you could ever want. A few USB-A ports as well as keeping at least the 4 USB-C ports from last year (instead of reducing to 3) would have been more useful for more people than the HDMI and especially the SD ports are. (HDMI used to be useful for plugging into a projector for presentations, that use-case is now nearly non-existent now that all meetings tend to happen over zoom, webex, teams, hangouts, etc. even when in-person. HDMI used to be useful for monitors but increasingly displayport over usb-c is supported by everything except the lowest end monitors. SD used to be important for stills and video footage, but increasingly cameras use CFExpress, CFast, output over hdmi to an atmos-style recorder, or even micro-SD for small GoPro style cameras, all of which will still need dongles. Devices like Raspberry Pis require micro SD not standard SD). They also could have added the nifty ethernet-over-magsafe via the powerbrick that the iMac has and they didn't do that. Edit: One additional thought - I'm seeing from the comments some reasonable situations where HDMI still comes in handy - cheap monitors, plugging into a tv to watch something, and I guess there are still lots of people physically plugging in at work for presentations. Fair enough, but in that case it's weird that this is a "Pro" feature. These are all very non-pro usecases and you'll still need dongles around for anybody with a non-pro machine (like a macbook air).

atourgates 5y ago
For all the times Apple seems to be willing to "stick to its guns" and ignore consumer complaining, this seems like a weird time to give in. They basically made a line-in-the-sand on USB-C adoption, and it pretty much worked. I'd argue that an HDMI and SD card readers are less useful, and certainly far less versatile than additional USB-C ports. For all the dongle jokes of a few years ago, I don't really see a reason to go back to less versatile ports in laptops.
- sintaxi 5y ago
  Every monitor and TV manufactured within the last decade without exception has an HDMI input and monitors that support thunderbolt are nearly double the cost. Even if money is no object that HDMI port will prove to be useful.
  - cactus2093 5y ago
    It's weird to sell the machine with a super high resolution 120hz mini LED screen though and then optimize the ports for the cheap $400 monitor market. You're right though the HDMI port might come in handy in random situations, better to include it than not. The SD port is the one I really don't get. And I still maintain that the continued lack of USB-A ports is a much bigger dongle problem than the lack of HDMI port was.
    - bliteben 5y ago
      USB-a dongle's make money and I'm sure the removal of magsafe cost them on applecare
    - sintaxi 5y ago
      The HDMI is for plugging into displays that are available to you when you are out of your office. Since they all have HDMI inputs this is a very sensible port.
    - newbie2020 5y ago
      My company had to dongle up EVERY meeting room once developers switched to MacBook pros with USB-C. But we still have non Mac users who use HDMI. To this day, every meeting has the potential to be sixty seconds late while we navigate through dongle hell…
    - addicted 5y ago
      Because the cheap HDMI monitors might be the only ones available to you as your company calls people into the office but now with the added beauty of hoteling. /snark
    - 5y ago
jd3 5y ago
i was also hoping that they would somehow be able to shoehorn an ethernet port inside of the power adapter, like on the M1 iMac on my M1 MacBook Pro (which, throughout the pandemic, has rested on my desk in clamshell mode all day, like a desktop), I use a ethernet <=> ethernet to thunderbolt 2 <=> thunderbolt 2 to thunderbolt 3/usb-c adapter chain, which takes up an entire usb-c port since it doesn't work at all when I plug it into the usb-c pass-through on my other usb-c hub unfortunately, there seems to be some kind of hardware bug in the thunderbolt 2 ethernet adapter, so even when the machine is asleep or off, it runs hot it also seems weird that Apple doesn't manufacture a first party ethernet <=> usb-c adapter — if i'm not mistaken, the only one on their website is made by Belkin and costs $30; moreover, I don't think anyone even manufactures a 10gbps ethernet adapter for the M1
- matthew-wegner 5y ago
  There are Thunderbolt 3 10gbit adapters that work on M1. I use a QNAP QNA-T310G1S on an M1 Mini with no issues. It's SFP+, which I prefer--both due to existing hardware I already have, and for lighter power consumption compared to 10gbit over RJ45. QNA-T310G1T is the RJ45 model, but there are other makes available too. (I bought the Mini at launch, and they've since released a SKU with built-in 10gbit Ethernet)
Diesel555 5y ago
> HDMI used to be useful for plugging into a projector for presentations, that use-case is now nearly non-existent now that all meetings tend to happen over zoom, webex, teams, hangouts, etc. even when in-person. I'm not sure you have the information to make the claim that the use case for HDMI is nearly non-existent. We use HDMI all the time. Availability bias is a thing. I find that people drastically underestimate how much they don't know about a subject or use-case of a product.
- Bayart 5y ago
  I wish I could plug into HDMI all the time. I still get a lot of VGA projectors !
- Gigachad 5y ago
  Yep, I'm in Australia in a state that has been largely in office for most of the year and I used the HDMI port on my Dell XPS. Although because of the macbook users, every HDMI cable in the office has a usb-c dongle stuck on it so I wouldn't be too inconvenienced by the lack of the port either.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- TimTheTinker 5y ago
  HDMI is ubiquitous. Any current projector, TV, or monitor (or any produced in the last 6 years) will have an HDMI port. For a static port set, I think the burden of proof lies on whoever wants to remove the HDMI port. However, I think Apple ought to have considered a Framework-style approach to ports. Why have static ports when you can have dynamic ports?
  - narism 5y ago
    > Why have static ports when you can have dynamic ports? Because dynamic ports (basically internal dongles) reduces the amount of internal volume they have to work with. This would cause compromises in other areas like a thicker laptop, less battery life, noisier fan, etc.
gruturo 5y ago
I strongly disagree. They didn't cave in to a minority, they gave Ive the boot and are finally putting back so many ports they know they should never have removed. Why they shouldn't have been removed? Because USB-C is awesome and _almost_ everywhere, but you need ONE important occasion where you need to connect a screen, plug in an SD card or even an external (pen|hard) drive, maybe in front of customers, and you get really infuriatingly frustrated, and regret buying this stupid trap which has half the ports of the one from 10 years ago, but costs 3x as much and just lost you a customer. The old one would have worked. Who's the idiot which came up with this contraption? Dongles are NOT the solution. They get lost or forgotten, they're messy. Reducing to 3 USB-C ports is perfectly fine as we regain the dedicated magsafe.
- djrogers 5y ago
  > which has half the ports of the one from 10 years ago, but costs 3x as much I'm with you right up 'til that '3X as much' part - MacBook Pros have remained static or gone down in real prices over the last decade - not 3x higher.
  - danudey 5y ago
    Maybe they bought a Chromebook 10 years ago?
  - gruturo 5y ago
    Point taken, thank you.
kruxigt 5y ago
Yeah you have a lot of good points! They timed the reintroduction of (especially) the SD card reader with its probable decline. In a year or two it might be as unappreciated as the touch bar - and of course also kept for 5 years?
dev_tty01 5y ago
>Fair enough, but in that case it's weird that this is a "Pro" feature. Doing presentations at work is a non-pro use case?
fomine3 5y ago
> (HDMI used to be useful for plugging into a projector for presentations, that use-case is now nearly non-existent now that all meetings tend to happen over zoom, webex, teams, hangouts, etc. even when in-person. HDMI used to be useful for monitors but increasingly displayport over usb-c is supported by everything except the lowest end monitors. > the cheap $400 monitor market. I found your employer is great and you're rich.
sails 5y ago
If the HDMI port supports 100% of whatever resolution/framerate possible for modern top end monitors then I'd be happy to see the end of fighting with DisplayPort. Getting Macbook Pro to work with modern monitors is a buggy mess, loads of hassles [] I'd be happy to know that they made this choice deliberately to fix whatever issues where I guess plaguing the USB-C display connections. [] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/some-users-having-external-display-connection-issues-with-macos-big-sur-11-1-and-11-2.2283218/page-9 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/some-users-having-exter...

atourgates 5y ago

For all the times Apple seems to be willing to "stick to its guns" and ignore consumer complaining, this seems like a weird time to give in. They basically made a line-in-the-sand on USB-C adoption, and it pretty much worked. I'd argue that an HDMI and SD card readers are less useful, and certainly far less versatile than additional USB-C ports. For all the dongle jokes of a few years ago, I don't really see a reason to go back to less versatile ports in laptops.

sintaxi 5y ago
Every monitor and TV manufactured within the last decade without exception has an HDMI input and monitors that support thunderbolt are nearly double the cost. Even if money is no object that HDMI port will prove to be useful.
- cactus2093 5y ago
  It's weird to sell the machine with a super high resolution 120hz mini LED screen though and then optimize the ports for the cheap $400 monitor market. You're right though the HDMI port might come in handy in random situations, better to include it than not. The SD port is the one I really don't get. And I still maintain that the continued lack of USB-A ports is a much bigger dongle problem than the lack of HDMI port was.
  - bliteben 5y ago
    USB-a dongle's make money and I'm sure the removal of magsafe cost them on applecare
  - sintaxi 5y ago
    The HDMI is for plugging into displays that are available to you when you are out of your office. Since they all have HDMI inputs this is a very sensible port.
  - newbie2020 5y ago
    My company had to dongle up EVERY meeting room once developers switched to MacBook pros with USB-C. But we still have non Mac users who use HDMI. To this day, every meeting has the potential to be sixty seconds late while we navigate through dongle hell…
  - addicted 5y ago
    Because the cheap HDMI monitors might be the only ones available to you as your company calls people into the office but now with the added beauty of hoteling. /snark
  - 5y ago

jd3 5y ago

i was also hoping that they would somehow be able to shoehorn an ethernet port inside of the power adapter, like on the M1 iMac on my M1 MacBook Pro (which, throughout the pandemic, has rested on my desk in clamshell mode all day, like a desktop), I use a ethernet <=> ethernet to thunderbolt 2 <=> thunderbolt 2 to thunderbolt 3/usb-c adapter chain, which takes up an entire usb-c port since it doesn't work at all when I plug it into the usb-c pass-through on my other usb-c hub unfortunately, there seems to be some kind of hardware bug in the thunderbolt 2 ethernet adapter, so even when the machine is asleep or off, it runs hot it also seems weird that Apple doesn't manufacture a first party ethernet <=> usb-c adapter — if i'm not mistaken, the only one on their website is made by Belkin and costs $30; moreover, I don't think anyone even manufactures a 10gbps ethernet adapter for the M1

matthew-wegner 5y ago
There are Thunderbolt 3 10gbit adapters that work on M1. I use a QNAP QNA-T310G1S on an M1 Mini with no issues. It's SFP+, which I prefer--both due to existing hardware I already have, and for lighter power consumption compared to 10gbit over RJ45. QNA-T310G1T is the RJ45 model, but there are other makes available too. (I bought the Mini at launch, and they've since released a SKU with built-in 10gbit Ethernet)

Diesel555 5y ago

> HDMI used to be useful for plugging into a projector for presentations, that use-case is now nearly non-existent now that all meetings tend to happen over zoom, webex, teams, hangouts, etc. even when in-person. I'm not sure you have the information to make the claim that the use case for HDMI is nearly non-existent. We use HDMI all the time. Availability bias is a thing. I find that people drastically underestimate how much they don't know about a subject or use-case of a product.

Bayart 5y ago
I wish I could plug into HDMI all the time. I still get a lot of VGA projectors !
Gigachad 5y ago
Yep, I'm in Australia in a state that has been largely in office for most of the year and I used the HDMI port on my Dell XPS. Although because of the macbook users, every HDMI cable in the office has a usb-c dongle stuck on it so I wouldn't be too inconvenienced by the lack of the port either.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
TimTheTinker 5y ago
HDMI is ubiquitous. Any current projector, TV, or monitor (or any produced in the last 6 years) will have an HDMI port. For a static port set, I think the burden of proof lies on whoever wants to remove the HDMI port. However, I think Apple ought to have considered a Framework-style approach to ports. Why have static ports when you can have dynamic ports?
- narism 5y ago
  > Why have static ports when you can have dynamic ports? Because dynamic ports (basically internal dongles) reduces the amount of internal volume they have to work with. This would cause compromises in other areas like a thicker laptop, less battery life, noisier fan, etc.

gruturo 5y ago

I strongly disagree. They didn't cave in to a minority, they gave Ive the boot and are finally putting back so many ports they know they should never have removed. Why they shouldn't have been removed? Because USB-C is awesome and _almost_ everywhere, but you need ONE important occasion where you need to connect a screen, plug in an SD card or even an external (pen|hard) drive, maybe in front of customers, and you get really infuriatingly frustrated, and regret buying this stupid trap which has half the ports of the one from 10 years ago, but costs 3x as much and just lost you a customer. The old one would have worked. Who's the idiot which came up with this contraption? Dongles are NOT the solution. They get lost or forgotten, they're messy. Reducing to 3 USB-C ports is perfectly fine as we regain the dedicated magsafe.

djrogers 5y ago
> which has half the ports of the one from 10 years ago, but costs 3x as much I'm with you right up 'til that '3X as much' part - MacBook Pros have remained static or gone down in real prices over the last decade - not 3x higher.
- danudey 5y ago
  Maybe they bought a Chromebook 10 years ago?
- gruturo 5y ago
  Point taken, thank you.

kruxigt 5y ago

Yeah you have a lot of good points! They timed the reintroduction of (especially) the SD card reader with its probable decline. In a year or two it might be as unappreciated as the touch bar - and of course also kept for 5 years?

dev_tty01 5y ago

>Fair enough, but in that case it's weird that this is a "Pro" feature. Doing presentations at work is a non-pro use case?

fomine3 5y ago

> (HDMI used to be useful for plugging into a projector for presentations, that use-case is now nearly non-existent now that all meetings tend to happen over zoom, webex, teams, hangouts, etc. even when in-person. HDMI used to be useful for monitors but increasingly displayport over usb-c is supported by everything except the lowest end monitors. > the cheap $400 monitor market. I found your employer is great and you're rich.

sails 5y ago

If the HDMI port supports 100% of whatever resolution/framerate possible for modern top end monitors then I'd be happy to see the end of fighting with DisplayPort. Getting Macbook Pro to work with modern monitors is a buggy mess, loads of hassles [] I'd be happy to know that they made this choice deliberately to fix whatever issues where I guess plaguing the USB-C display connections. [] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/some-users-having-external-display-connection-issues-with-macos-big-sur-11-1-and-11-2.2283218/page-9 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/some-users-having-exter...