3 ms·

Or, you know, under nearly every normal use case, it will just blend into the display. It causes no issues on the iPhones and looks just fine for what it is and

Or, you know, under nearly every normal use case, it will just blend into the display. It causes no issues on the iPhones and looks just fine for what it is and, aesthetically, I'd prefer to have the slight bit of extra screen space for status icons and menus as opposed to a larger bevel. I don't see you proposing any better, more aesthetically pleasing solution, only complaining.

incrudible 5y ago
> I don't see you proposing any better, more aesthetically pleasing solution, only complaining. How about not having a notch, like literally every other Apple (and non-Apple) laptop? Is that even conceivable?
- zepto 5y ago
  If you think a useless bar of metal at the top of your screen instead of useful display area is attractive then sure.
- dkonofalski 5y ago
  Then where would you put the camera and the sensors that are in there? If you don't have the notch, you have to increase the size of the bezel. Since the notch lives in the empty area of the menu bar, it's a better solution than a bezel and gives more screen real estate in the same form factor. Edit: 'Notch' not 'not'
  - incrudible 5y ago
    Yes, have a slightly larger Bezel instead of a huge unappealing notch. Did I mention how much I do not like the notch? Look in any of the comments sections of this new product, how many people are commenting on how this notch is off-putting? Does it seem like a worthy tradeoff? I do not think so.
    - dkonofalski 5y ago
      Literally everyone, besides you, in this HN thread is commenting on how it's a good solution and gives more screen real estate while maintaining the aspect ratio. The only people complaining about it, including you, haven't really specified what about it is unappealing.
      - incrudible 5y ago
        My comment is the most up-voted comment. Multiple people complain about the notch in this thread. There's no point in explaining why it looks bad, because if you don't see it, no explanation will make you see it. You are immune to it. Good for you. I'm not saying you should find it ugly.
- stouset 5y ago
  > How about not having a notch, like literally every other Apple (and non-Apple) laptop? Is that even conceivable? So literally the least functional and useful of all possible options? The notch isn't subtractive from previous generations' screen space. The bezel was removed except for the area where the notch is, adding a menu bar's worth of screen space. And the center of that menu bar is virtually always empty space. Your proposal is to add extra bezels back and subtract away a menu bar's worth of vertical space, just to remove a small protrusion that you won't even notice half a week into using the device. “The design is not just what it looks like and feels like. The design is how it works.”
  - incrudible 5y ago
    Let me tell you how this design is dysfunctional: It puts a piece of hardware that many people don't even use regularly in a very prominent place, in a way that many people find disturbing and unappealing. The UI needs to accommodate for this ("looks great in dark mode") to lessen the impact. The best thing you can say about it is "it's not that noticable" and "you'll get used to it". There's another foolproof way to tell that the notch (on the iPhone) is a bad design: Nobody is copying it.
    - Fezzik 5y ago
      Maybe everyone has stopped copying the notch (I’m honestly not sure), but numerous manufacturers were copying it soonafter the iPhone X release. See: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/2/28/17062030/iphone-x-clones-android-mwc-2018 https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/2/28/17062030/i... Edit, to finish the thought: so it remains to be seen if other manufacturers will follow-suit this time.
    - stouset 5y ago
      > It puts a piece of hardware that many people don't even use regularly in a very prominent place… Perhaps you’ve heard of this “pandemic” thing where an absurd number of professionals are working remotely and participating in virtual meetings? > …in a way that many people find disturbing and unappealing. But that the clearly overwhelming majority—if the iPhone is any evidence—simply do not notice enough to care about. iPhones with the notch have continued to sell in record-setting numbers, despite your own personal sensibilities. > The best thing you can say about it is "it's not that noticable" and "you'll get used to it". The best thing I can say about it is that it’s a phenomenally well-executed compromise that leaves a frequently-needed piece of hardware in an ideal place while reducing useless bezels, adding screen real estate, and cleverly occupying an area of the screen that is almost certainly the most underutilized in all of macOS. Compared to the alternatives (a thicker bezel with lost screen real-estate, a thicker lid with a worse-quality camera, or a camera placed elsewhere) it is quite literally the optimal technical choice. That it’s aesthetically unpleasant to some people is actually the worst thing you can say about it, and if it’s anything like the one on my phone, I literally won’t notice it unless someone is actively pointing it out. > There's another foolproof way to tell that the notch (on the iPhone) is a bad design: Nobody is copying it. You are one quick Google search away from enlightenment, friend.

incrudible 5y ago

> I don't see you proposing any better, more aesthetically pleasing solution, only complaining. How about not having a notch, like literally every other Apple (and non-Apple) laptop? Is that even conceivable?

zepto 5y ago
If you think a useless bar of metal at the top of your screen instead of useful display area is attractive then sure.
dkonofalski 5y ago
Then where would you put the camera and the sensors that are in there? If you don't have the notch, you have to increase the size of the bezel. Since the notch lives in the empty area of the menu bar, it's a better solution than a bezel and gives more screen real estate in the same form factor. Edit: 'Notch' not 'not'
- incrudible 5y ago
  Yes, have a slightly larger Bezel instead of a huge unappealing notch. Did I mention how much I do not like the notch? Look in any of the comments sections of this new product, how many people are commenting on how this notch is off-putting? Does it seem like a worthy tradeoff? I do not think so.
  - dkonofalski 5y ago
    Literally everyone, besides you, in this HN thread is commenting on how it's a good solution and gives more screen real estate while maintaining the aspect ratio. The only people complaining about it, including you, haven't really specified what about it is unappealing.
    - incrudible 5y ago
      My comment is the most up-voted comment. Multiple people complain about the notch in this thread. There's no point in explaining why it looks bad, because if you don't see it, no explanation will make you see it. You are immune to it. Good for you. I'm not saying you should find it ugly.
stouset 5y ago
> How about not having a notch, like literally every other Apple (and non-Apple) laptop? Is that even conceivable? So literally the least functional and useful of all possible options? The notch isn't subtractive from previous generations' screen space. The bezel was removed except for the area where the notch is, adding a menu bar's worth of screen space. And the center of that menu bar is virtually always empty space. Your proposal is to add extra bezels back and subtract away a menu bar's worth of vertical space, just to remove a small protrusion that you won't even notice half a week into using the device. “The design is not just what it looks like and feels like. The design is how it works.”
- incrudible 5y ago
  Let me tell you how this design is dysfunctional: It puts a piece of hardware that many people don't even use regularly in a very prominent place, in a way that many people find disturbing and unappealing. The UI needs to accommodate for this ("looks great in dark mode") to lessen the impact. The best thing you can say about it is "it's not that noticable" and "you'll get used to it". There's another foolproof way to tell that the notch (on the iPhone) is a bad design: Nobody is copying it.
  - Fezzik 5y ago
    Maybe everyone has stopped copying the notch (I’m honestly not sure), but numerous manufacturers were copying it soonafter the iPhone X release. See: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/2/28/17062030/iphone-x-clones-android-mwc-2018 https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/2/28/17062030/i... Edit, to finish the thought: so it remains to be seen if other manufacturers will follow-suit this time.
  - stouset 5y ago
    > It puts a piece of hardware that many people don't even use regularly in a very prominent place… Perhaps you’ve heard of this “pandemic” thing where an absurd number of professionals are working remotely and participating in virtual meetings? > …in a way that many people find disturbing and unappealing. But that the clearly overwhelming majority—if the iPhone is any evidence—simply do not notice enough to care about. iPhones with the notch have continued to sell in record-setting numbers, despite your own personal sensibilities. > The best thing you can say about it is "it's not that noticable" and "you'll get used to it". The best thing I can say about it is that it’s a phenomenally well-executed compromise that leaves a frequently-needed piece of hardware in an ideal place while reducing useless bezels, adding screen real estate, and cleverly occupying an area of the screen that is almost certainly the most underutilized in all of macOS. Compared to the alternatives (a thicker bezel with lost screen real-estate, a thicker lid with a worse-quality camera, or a camera placed elsewhere) it is quite literally the optimal technical choice. That it’s aesthetically unpleasant to some people is actually the worst thing you can say about it, and if it’s anything like the one on my phone, I literally won’t notice it unless someone is actively pointing it out. > There's another foolproof way to tell that the notch (on the iPhone) is a bad design: Nobody is copying it. You are one quick Google search away from enlightenment, friend.