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> A major part of science is debate, the inquiry of knowledge, not just being told to shut-up for the sake of science. Well that's the problem... during an eme

by umvi 5y ago

> A major part of science is debate, the inquiry of knowledge, not just being told to shut-up for the sake of science. Well that's the problem... during an emergency (like a pandemic) there are extreme time pressures to get results. Things like debates, inquiry of knowledge, peer review, etc. take time (and taking time = deaths). I believe that is why people were being told to "shut up". Not saying bludgeoning the masses to blindly accept the bleeding edge consensus was the right route to go, just trying to understand why that was the route chosen in the USA.

zdragnar 5y ago
Behavioral changes were compelled on false premises. That generated the vast majority of the push-back and acrimony. Closing borders was racist. Fauci admitted he intentionally misled people [1]. It was totally natural and totally not even conceivable that it had been engineered or part of a program that intentionally makes viruses more infectious. Masks don't work. Masks do work (even though we now know it to be aerosol, not droplet like the flu). So on and so forth. It is hard to maintain an air of credibility when you are consistently proving to not be credible. [1] https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/90445 https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/90445 (the source NYT article was paywalled)
karmakaze 5y ago
There was too much trying to 'being right' rather than saying things that are easy to amend. The prime example is masks. Sure leave the N91 for healthcare. But don't hem and haw on whether people should use masks, if they're effective, and how so. Say we don't know for certain, but to be safe use them to protect yourself or others. Consider the upside vs down. What no one wanted to say was "we don't know, so..." Most of these problems came from upkeeping appearances. Science should not be based on appearance. On that occasion science == politics.
LanceH 5y ago
The same people were simultaneously saying to trust he science, telling lies because it is what we needed to hear, and ignoring the very laws they were passing. It is no wonder that people took a position opposite this. Personally, I was vaccinated the moment it was available to me and I encourage people to be vaccinated. But we're at the point where people are being told to trust the science on vaccinations by the same people lying at each previous step along the way. The naked power grab under the name of "emergency" has been going on for a year and a half now. A lot of places are just trying to increase their emergency powers where a significant portion of the people have just had enough. Then there is the matter of preferred treatment for certain groups. Kids in California will be required to vaccinate -- but not the big union prison guards. The major league sports require all their employees to vaccinate -- except the players. BLM gets a pass on gathering, but just living one's life and being able to pay your bills isn't sufficient.

by umvi 5y ago

zdragnar 5y ago

Behavioral changes were compelled on false premises. That generated the vast majority of the push-back and acrimony. Closing borders was racist. Fauci admitted he intentionally misled people [1]. It was totally natural and totally not even conceivable that it had been engineered or part of a program that intentionally makes viruses more infectious. Masks don't work. Masks do work (even though we now know it to be aerosol, not droplet like the flu). So on and so forth. It is hard to maintain an air of credibility when you are consistently proving to not be credible. [1] https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/90445 https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/90445 (the source NYT article was paywalled)

karmakaze 5y ago

There was too much trying to 'being right' rather than saying things that are easy to amend. The prime example is masks. Sure leave the N91 for healthcare. But don't hem and haw on whether people should use masks, if they're effective, and how so. Say we don't know for certain, but to be safe use them to protect yourself or others. Consider the upside vs down. What no one wanted to say was "we don't know, so..." Most of these problems came from upkeeping appearances. Science should not be based on appearance. On that occasion science == politics.

LanceH 5y ago

The same people were simultaneously saying to trust he science, telling lies because it is what we needed to hear, and ignoring the very laws they were passing. It is no wonder that people took a position opposite this. Personally, I was vaccinated the moment it was available to me and I encourage people to be vaccinated. But we're at the point where people are being told to trust the science on vaccinations by the same people lying at each previous step along the way. The naked power grab under the name of "emergency" has been going on for a year and a half now. A lot of places are just trying to increase their emergency powers where a significant portion of the people have just had enough. Then there is the matter of preferred treatment for certain groups. Kids in California will be required to vaccinate -- but not the big union prison guards. The major league sports require all their employees to vaccinate -- except the players. BLM gets a pass on gathering, but just living one's life and being able to pay your bills isn't sufficient.