5 ms·

Where did you see the "matches the 3070" thing? When I was (admittedly) skimming the two articles, the performance metrics were all about "performance per watt"

Where did you see the "matches the 3070" thing? When I was (admittedly) skimming the two articles, the performance metrics were all about "performance per watt" which ... doesn't mean anything for actual performance in a "how long will this scene take to render?" sort of meaning.

Version467 5y ago
They made a direct comparison to "the fastest laptop we could find". I think there was fine print that had the exact laptop they compared it to, but I noticed it too late to read. But presumably this means at least 3070 performance.
- trvr 5y ago
  This is the laptop they compared: https://us-store.msi.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=801 https://us-store.msi.com/index.php?route=product/product&pro...
  - andy_ppp 5y ago
    Wow, this is going to hopefully support VR experiences where you carry the laptop on your back or chest…
    - kolinko 5y ago
      No need for that with the new quest
      - yellowapple 5y ago
        Yeah, but then you'd have to settle for a Quest.
        balls187 5y ago
        The Quest 2 is a major upgrade.
        leppr 5y ago
        Hardware-wise maybe, but it's still bogged down by Facebook. Supporting them by buying their products, when the window of opportunity for user-respecting alternatives is still wide open, is frankly unethical.
    - wyre 5y ago
      Fully immersive portable AR…
  - robterrell 5y ago
    ...which has "NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 3080 Laptop GPU 16GB GDDR6" for its GPU.
    - spartanatreyu 5y ago
      Yeah, but the things that aren't clear from the comparisons are how under-clocked those gpus may be, and at what power usage did apple set them to before they ran their tests.
      - scoopertrooper 5y ago
        In at least one of the charts they had the M1 using 100 W less power than the top spec laptop. So they must have had that thing clocked pretty high.
tdrdt 5y ago
They only say 'pro laptop GPU' and everyone is assuming a mobile 3070. But we don't know what Apple is comparing.
- CSDude 5y ago
  There was a link in the slides for the models but I missed it.
- t-writescode 5y ago
  If this is coming from this article: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/10/introducing-m1-pro-and-m1-max-the-most-powerful-chips-apple-has-ever-built/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/10/introducing-m1-pro-an... In the picture titled "GPU performance vs. power", that is "relative performance" with lower power consumption, so it doesn't say anything about literal performance. Then there's this: > In addition, the GPU delivers performance comparable to a high-end GPU in a compact pro PC laptop while consuming up to 40 percent less power, and performance similar to that of the highest-end GPU in the largest PC laptops while using up to 100 watts less power.[2] Where that 2 points to: > ... Discrete PC laptop graphics performance data from testing Lenovo Legion 5 (82JW0012US). High-end discrete PC laptop graphics performance data from testing MSI GE76 Raider (11UH-053). PC compact pro laptop performance data from testing Razer Blade 15 Advanced (RZ09-0409CE53-R3U1). Performance tests are conducted using specific computer systems and reflect the approximate performance of MacBook Pro. 82JW0012US on Amazon has a 3050Ti in it 11UH-053 has a 3080 in it RZ09-0409CE53-R3U1 has a 3080 in it So there's some data. I've still got some real questions about why they're talking "relative performance" in their graphs, though. (edit: formatting)
- hbOY5ENiZloUfnZ 5y ago
  It was written very small in grey text on the bottom right of the slide. I didn't notice it during the presentation but people posted screenshots on Twitter. The "Compact pro PC laptop" is Razer Blade 15 Advanced (rz09-0409ce53) and "High-end PC laptop" is MSI GE76 Raider (11UH-053). You can see if you pause at 22:46[0]. Both of these have RTX 3080s and in Apple's chart their chips are slightly slower but at much lower power. What we don't know if what benchmark they used for this comparison since 375 "relative performance" isn't a defined metric. [0] https://youtu.be/exM1uajp--A?t=1366 https://youtu.be/exM1uajp--A?t=1366
throwawaysea 5y ago
I don’t think we know. The Apple website shows GPU benchmarks for pro apps for the new MBPs, where there is a big performance leap relative to the top GPU from the last model. But I haven’t seen comparisons on gaming against nvidia GPUs, which I think is what would be needed to make such a claim.
- Macha 5y ago
  Part of the reason that nvidia GPU drivers are so large, and they've been so unwilling to open source them is a good amount of nvidia's secret sauce for gaming is in the software. They'll work with devs on optimisation before launch with might disproportionately benefit their hardware, sometimes the drivers will fix games for devs, e.g. swapping out shaders for visually equivalent but better performing ones, or the z-index issues cyberpunk had if you didn't update to the "game ready" drivers. e.g. look at the lows for Tomb Raider or anything for Red Dead 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIwIeobQSnQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIwIeobQSnQ It's why when Intel moved from the GMA to Intel HD (i.e. "can just about render a desktop" to "can play indie games"), it took years before games even reliably worked on Intel GPUs, never mind performed. Of course once they did it pretty much killed off the budget GPU market. Even at the high end consumer market, it's why you often find AMD GPUs outperforming cost equivalent nVidia cards for compute use but then falling flat in games. Apple has the advantage that the big game engines like Unity/Unreal etc. have been targeting their hardware for the mobile support for the last while, so they have arguably a bit of a head start relative to Intel's entry, but I have to imagine they have a catch up to do before they run high end PC games comparably. Probably will run the entire iOS catalogue in 120hz though.
resist_futility 5y ago
M1 Max GPU specs https://youtu.be/exM1uajp--A?t=1218 https://youtu.be/exM1uajp--A?t=1218 Mobile 3080 specs https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-3080-max-q.c3753 https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-3080-max-q... fewer teraflops but higher gigatexels, gigapixels
- SoylentYellow 5y ago
  Here is another Mobile 3080 from the same site: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-3080-mobile.c3684 https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-3080-mobil... That seems closer to the power consumption they had on their comparison chart.
stunt 5y ago
Yeah, they also claim to have "studio quality microphones". I think specs are great, but comparisons are not always honest.

Version467 5y ago

They made a direct comparison to "the fastest laptop we could find". I think there was fine print that had the exact laptop they compared it to, but I noticed it too late to read. But presumably this means at least 3070 performance.

trvr 5y ago
This is the laptop they compared: https://us-store.msi.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=801 https://us-store.msi.com/index.php?route=product/product&pro...
- andy_ppp 5y ago
  Wow, this is going to hopefully support VR experiences where you carry the laptop on your back or chest…
  - kolinko 5y ago
    No need for that with the new quest
    - yellowapple 5y ago
      Yeah, but then you'd have to settle for a Quest.
      - balls187 5y ago
        The Quest 2 is a major upgrade.
        leppr 5y ago
        Hardware-wise maybe, but it's still bogged down by Facebook. Supporting them by buying their products, when the window of opportunity for user-respecting alternatives is still wide open, is frankly unethical.
  - wyre 5y ago
    Fully immersive portable AR…
- robterrell 5y ago
  ...which has "NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 3080 Laptop GPU 16GB GDDR6" for its GPU.
  - spartanatreyu 5y ago
    Yeah, but the things that aren't clear from the comparisons are how under-clocked those gpus may be, and at what power usage did apple set them to before they ran their tests.
    - scoopertrooper 5y ago
      In at least one of the charts they had the M1 using 100 W less power than the top spec laptop. So they must have had that thing clocked pretty high.

tdrdt 5y ago

They only say 'pro laptop GPU' and everyone is assuming a mobile 3070. But we don't know what Apple is comparing.

CSDude 5y ago
There was a link in the slides for the models but I missed it.
t-writescode 5y ago
If this is coming from this article: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/10/introducing-m1-pro-and-m1-max-the-most-powerful-chips-apple-has-ever-built/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/10/introducing-m1-pro-an... In the picture titled "GPU performance vs. power", that is "relative performance" with lower power consumption, so it doesn't say anything about literal performance. Then there's this: > In addition, the GPU delivers performance comparable to a high-end GPU in a compact pro PC laptop while consuming up to 40 percent less power, and performance similar to that of the highest-end GPU in the largest PC laptops while using up to 100 watts less power.[2] Where that 2 points to: > ... Discrete PC laptop graphics performance data from testing Lenovo Legion 5 (82JW0012US). High-end discrete PC laptop graphics performance data from testing MSI GE76 Raider (11UH-053). PC compact pro laptop performance data from testing Razer Blade 15 Advanced (RZ09-0409CE53-R3U1). Performance tests are conducted using specific computer systems and reflect the approximate performance of MacBook Pro. 82JW0012US on Amazon has a 3050Ti in it 11UH-053 has a 3080 in it RZ09-0409CE53-R3U1 has a 3080 in it So there's some data. I've still got some real questions about why they're talking "relative performance" in their graphs, though. (edit: formatting)
hbOY5ENiZloUfnZ 5y ago
It was written very small in grey text on the bottom right of the slide. I didn't notice it during the presentation but people posted screenshots on Twitter. The "Compact pro PC laptop" is Razer Blade 15 Advanced (rz09-0409ce53) and "High-end PC laptop" is MSI GE76 Raider (11UH-053). You can see if you pause at 22:46[0]. Both of these have RTX 3080s and in Apple's chart their chips are slightly slower but at much lower power. What we don't know if what benchmark they used for this comparison since 375 "relative performance" isn't a defined metric. [0] https://youtu.be/exM1uajp--A?t=1366 https://youtu.be/exM1uajp--A?t=1366

throwawaysea 5y ago

I don’t think we know. The Apple website shows GPU benchmarks for pro apps for the new MBPs, where there is a big performance leap relative to the top GPU from the last model. But I haven’t seen comparisons on gaming against nvidia GPUs, which I think is what would be needed to make such a claim.

Macha 5y ago
Part of the reason that nvidia GPU drivers are so large, and they've been so unwilling to open source them is a good amount of nvidia's secret sauce for gaming is in the software. They'll work with devs on optimisation before launch with might disproportionately benefit their hardware, sometimes the drivers will fix games for devs, e.g. swapping out shaders for visually equivalent but better performing ones, or the z-index issues cyberpunk had if you didn't update to the "game ready" drivers. e.g. look at the lows for Tomb Raider or anything for Red Dead 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIwIeobQSnQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIwIeobQSnQ It's why when Intel moved from the GMA to Intel HD (i.e. "can just about render a desktop" to "can play indie games"), it took years before games even reliably worked on Intel GPUs, never mind performed. Of course once they did it pretty much killed off the budget GPU market. Even at the high end consumer market, it's why you often find AMD GPUs outperforming cost equivalent nVidia cards for compute use but then falling flat in games. Apple has the advantage that the big game engines like Unity/Unreal etc. have been targeting their hardware for the mobile support for the last while, so they have arguably a bit of a head start relative to Intel's entry, but I have to imagine they have a catch up to do before they run high end PC games comparably. Probably will run the entire iOS catalogue in 120hz though.

resist_futility 5y ago

M1 Max GPU specs https://youtu.be/exM1uajp--A?t=1218 https://youtu.be/exM1uajp--A?t=1218 Mobile 3080 specs https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-3080-max-q.c3753 https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-3080-max-q... fewer teraflops but higher gigatexels, gigapixels

SoylentYellow 5y ago
Here is another Mobile 3080 from the same site: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-3080-mobile.c3684 https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-3080-mobil... That seems closer to the power consumption they had on their comparison chart.

stunt 5y ago

Yeah, they also claim to have "studio quality microphones". I think specs are great, but comparisons are not always honest.