7 ms·

I can live without HDMI, but it never made sense to me to put SD on the chopping block. In what sense was USB-C ever supposed to be an alternative to SD card sl

by buu700 5y ago

I can live without HDMI, but it never made sense to me to put SD on the chopping block. In what sense was USB-C ever supposed to be an alternative to SD card slots? Edit: For clarity, read my reply to anamexis before responding to this.

anamexis 5y ago
Opposite for me - I almost never used the SD slot, so a dongle was no problem for me, but I used HDMI all the time.
- buu700 5y ago
  I'm not commenting on whether storage expansion or video output is more important. That obviously depends on the person. I'm saying that while USB-C is an effective solution for video output, and therefore can conceivably overtake HDMI at some point in the future, it doesn't address the same use case as SD at all. I can use an SD card slot for permanent expandable storage. I can stick a terabyte card in there and forget about it until I need to move it into a new device. USB-C doesn't help with that use case at all. It's actually worse than USB-A, because at least the latter has decent slim fit drives available that will stay in without sticking out too much.
  - TheGRS 5y ago
    Hidden in your comment is the intent, Apple was selling the MBP with iPhone marketing intentions. You can put more of a $$ premium on storage if the micro SD card slot does not exist, much like an iPhone.
  - ksec 5y ago
    >and therefore can conceivably overtake HDMI at some point in the future, HDMI will live on forever in the TV space and professional equipment. USB-C / DisplayPort was only ever an effective solution in the computing industry, not consumer / professional electronics. Same to SD Card, both are targeting to Video / Graphics professionals.
    - buu700 5y ago
      Does USB-C have some fundamental limitation or downside compared to HDMI? As a non-expert in HDMI or the needs of professional TV equipment, that isn't clear to me. The only thing that comes to mind is possibly increased attack surface (BadUSB-type attacks). I'm of course speaking without consideration for whatever momentum the two solutions may or may not have in the current marketplace.
      - concinds 5y ago
        You can't run 10 meter USB-C cables for video, unlike HDMI
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- CarelessExpert 5y ago
  And this debate is why Framework's approach to port modularity makes so much sense and why it's not just a gimmick, despite what early critics were saying around here.
  - Spivak 5y ago
    Even for users who want the default ports, having the ability to swap out ports that have worn out without having to replace the entire logic board would be a huge win.
chrisseaton 5y ago
> In what sense was USB-C ever supposed to be an alternative to SD card slots? You use a USB-C dongle. 99% of people never use SD cards so don't care. The people who do care can use a dongle.
- emptyparadise 5y ago
  Apple put the SD card slot back in, we can stop pretending now.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    Yeah I think it's an unfortunate step backwards. Now I have to carry around a SD card reader that I'll never use, hard-connected to my system.
    - VectorLock 5y ago
      If you never use it... why do you have to carry it around?
      - chrisseaton 5y ago
        Because it’s built-in. I can’t leave it behind. That’s the whole point. It’s also e-waste - a whole slot most people never use.
- FireBeyond 5y ago
  Ahh, Apple, always looking out for the 1% of users!
- lucideer 5y ago
  The point is that people who do care want an always-in solution. I have two low-profile always-in peripherals in my 2017 Air: SD & yubi. I have the same on my modern Dell Precision (which is otherwise a MBP-esque all-usbc chassis). These can be taken out, but rarely need to be & are always available. That setup isn't possible with any current Apple devices (until now).
emsy 5y ago
HDMI makes more sense imo. You can hook up an SD card with adapter, connect the camera via USB-C or wireless. With Displays you aren’t as flexible.
- evgen 5y ago
  There is no display that accepts HDMI that would not work with a USB-C -> HDMI adapter. Add in the fact that HDMI is generally inferior to connectors like DisplayPort and you have a wasted slot. I can almost understand the SD card, but the inclusion of HDMI is just a waste of port space.
  - zsmi 5y ago
    I'm guessing it's mostly for people connecting to projectors in conference rooms.
  - orangecat 5y ago
    Maybe I'm just unlucky, but I've had consistently bad results with USB->HDMI adapters. From not working at all, to random CPU spikes, to my current situation of the external monitor intermittently flashing blue. This is with both Apple and third-party dongles. the inclusion of HDMI is just a waste of port space This is Apple; they'd have zero ports if they could get away with it. Clearly they've done research and found that it's important to a significant portion of the target market.
- mywittyname 5y ago
  Lots of people use SD cards as basically "permanent" extendable storage. And this is something that's much more necessary on lesser Macbooks because they come with such limited standard storage. A 256GB SD card is under $40, while adding that much storage to the SSD in the Macbook is hundreds. HDMI is just one of the many display ports around, and the people using it are probably tied to a desk or something, so having a dongle for it is really no big deal. I don't mind using my Anker for HDMI, but it sucks that I have to use it for SD.
  - emsy 5y ago
nuerow 5y ago
> I can live without HDMI, but it never made sense to me to put SD on the chopping block. HDMI means external monitor. For some (most?) an external monitor is a must-have.
- buu700 5y ago
  USB-C supports video out.
  - handrous 5y ago
    In an average city block, I'd expect that ~99% of displays—TVs, monitors, projectors—would support HDMI-in. Plus A/V receivers, for that matter. Maybe, maybe 5% would support DisplayPort over USB-C (or anything else that lets you use USB-C for video in), and that's after a few years of Apple pushing it as The Next Big Thing. I fully expect HDMI will be more common than DP+USB-C in five more years, and quite likely in ten. For one thing, it's really nice to install in offices and houses because you can have long runs of it (50+ feet), with relatively cheap cable (compared to video-capable USB-C, certainly) and it'll still work. If something replaces it, I think it'll either be wireless or some other cable, not USB-C.
    - buu700 5y ago
      To be clear, I'm explicitly not commenting on market penetration of either solution, but rather their inherent capabilities. I don't see USB-to-HDMI cables or adapters as particularly cumbersome, whereas there isn't a way to just cram a storage module fully inside a USB-C port as though it were an SD slot. As far as the cost of HDMI vs USB-C for long runs, that's a good point. I could see similarly cheap/efficient video-only USB-C cables potentially addressing that use case, but I don't know enough about the internals of USB-C to comment on whether that's viable. I could also see HDMI being used only behind the scenes in the future (like how computers don't typically have fiber optic or coaxial ports). At the end of the day, it's not like I'm suggesting that HDMI should be removed from computers. My point is that the argument for removing it (whether or not you agree with that argument) never applied to SD ports in the first place.
    - 5y ago
closeparen 5y ago
I stopped using SD cards around the time that my iPhone replaced my DSLR. And when I worked in more advanced settings (photojournalism, film school) it was CompactFlash anyway.

by buu700 5y ago

anamexis 5y ago

Opposite for me - I almost never used the SD slot, so a dongle was no problem for me, but I used HDMI all the time.

buu700 5y ago
I'm not commenting on whether storage expansion or video output is more important. That obviously depends on the person. I'm saying that while USB-C is an effective solution for video output, and therefore can conceivably overtake HDMI at some point in the future, it doesn't address the same use case as SD at all. I can use an SD card slot for permanent expandable storage. I can stick a terabyte card in there and forget about it until I need to move it into a new device. USB-C doesn't help with that use case at all. It's actually worse than USB-A, because at least the latter has decent slim fit drives available that will stay in without sticking out too much.
- TheGRS 5y ago
  Hidden in your comment is the intent, Apple was selling the MBP with iPhone marketing intentions. You can put more of a $$ premium on storage if the micro SD card slot does not exist, much like an iPhone.
- ksec 5y ago
  >and therefore can conceivably overtake HDMI at some point in the future, HDMI will live on forever in the TV space and professional equipment. USB-C / DisplayPort was only ever an effective solution in the computing industry, not consumer / professional electronics. Same to SD Card, both are targeting to Video / Graphics professionals.
  - buu700 5y ago
    Does USB-C have some fundamental limitation or downside compared to HDMI? As a non-expert in HDMI or the needs of professional TV equipment, that isn't clear to me. The only thing that comes to mind is possibly increased attack surface (BadUSB-type attacks). I'm of course speaking without consideration for whatever momentum the two solutions may or may not have in the current marketplace.
    - concinds 5y ago
      You can't run 10 meter USB-C cables for video, unlike HDMI
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
CarelessExpert 5y ago
And this debate is why Framework's approach to port modularity makes so much sense and why it's not just a gimmick, despite what early critics were saying around here.
- Spivak 5y ago
  Even for users who want the default ports, having the ability to swap out ports that have worn out without having to replace the entire logic board would be a huge win.

chrisseaton 5y ago

> In what sense was USB-C ever supposed to be an alternative to SD card slots? You use a USB-C dongle. 99% of people never use SD cards so don't care. The people who do care can use a dongle.

emptyparadise 5y ago
Apple put the SD card slot back in, we can stop pretending now.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  Yeah I think it's an unfortunate step backwards. Now I have to carry around a SD card reader that I'll never use, hard-connected to my system.
  - VectorLock 5y ago
    If you never use it... why do you have to carry it around?
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      Because it’s built-in. I can’t leave it behind. That’s the whole point. It’s also e-waste - a whole slot most people never use.
FireBeyond 5y ago
Ahh, Apple, always looking out for the 1% of users!
lucideer 5y ago
The point is that people who do care want an always-in solution. I have two low-profile always-in peripherals in my 2017 Air: SD & yubi. I have the same on my modern Dell Precision (which is otherwise a MBP-esque all-usbc chassis). These can be taken out, but rarely need to be & are always available. That setup isn't possible with any current Apple devices (until now).

emsy 5y ago

HDMI makes more sense imo. You can hook up an SD card with adapter, connect the camera via USB-C or wireless. With Displays you aren’t as flexible.

evgen 5y ago
There is no display that accepts HDMI that would not work with a USB-C -> HDMI adapter. Add in the fact that HDMI is generally inferior to connectors like DisplayPort and you have a wasted slot. I can almost understand the SD card, but the inclusion of HDMI is just a waste of port space.
- zsmi 5y ago
  I'm guessing it's mostly for people connecting to projectors in conference rooms.
- orangecat 5y ago
  Maybe I'm just unlucky, but I've had consistently bad results with USB->HDMI adapters. From not working at all, to random CPU spikes, to my current situation of the external monitor intermittently flashing blue. This is with both Apple and third-party dongles. the inclusion of HDMI is just a waste of port space This is Apple; they'd have zero ports if they could get away with it. Clearly they've done research and found that it's important to a significant portion of the target market.
mywittyname 5y ago
Lots of people use SD cards as basically "permanent" extendable storage. And this is something that's much more necessary on lesser Macbooks because they come with such limited standard storage. A 256GB SD card is under $40, while adding that much storage to the SSD in the Macbook is hundreds. HDMI is just one of the many display ports around, and the people using it are probably tied to a desk or something, so having a dongle for it is really no big deal. I don't mind using my Anker for HDMI, but it sucks that I have to use it for SD.
- emsy 5y ago

nuerow 5y ago

> I can live without HDMI, but it never made sense to me to put SD on the chopping block. HDMI means external monitor. For some (most?) an external monitor is a must-have.

buu700 5y ago
USB-C supports video out.
- handrous 5y ago
  In an average city block, I'd expect that ~99% of displays—TVs, monitors, projectors—would support HDMI-in. Plus A/V receivers, for that matter. Maybe, maybe 5% would support DisplayPort over USB-C (or anything else that lets you use USB-C for video in), and that's after a few years of Apple pushing it as The Next Big Thing. I fully expect HDMI will be more common than DP+USB-C in five more years, and quite likely in ten. For one thing, it's really nice to install in offices and houses because you can have long runs of it (50+ feet), with relatively cheap cable (compared to video-capable USB-C, certainly) and it'll still work. If something replaces it, I think it'll either be wireless or some other cable, not USB-C.
  - buu700 5y ago
    To be clear, I'm explicitly not commenting on market penetration of either solution, but rather their inherent capabilities. I don't see USB-to-HDMI cables or adapters as particularly cumbersome, whereas there isn't a way to just cram a storage module fully inside a USB-C port as though it were an SD slot. As far as the cost of HDMI vs USB-C for long runs, that's a good point. I could see similarly cheap/efficient video-only USB-C cables potentially addressing that use case, but I don't know enough about the internals of USB-C to comment on whether that's viable. I could also see HDMI being used only behind the scenes in the future (like how computers don't typically have fiber optic or coaxial ports). At the end of the day, it's not like I'm suggesting that HDMI should be removed from computers. My point is that the argument for removing it (whether or not you agree with that argument) never applied to SD ports in the first place.
  - 5y ago

closeparen 5y ago

I stopped using SD cards around the time that my iPhone replaced my DSLR. And when I worked in more advanced settings (photojournalism, film school) it was CompactFlash anyway.