8 ms·

The M1 stuff is amazing but it's kind of a sad state of affairs when I'm unreasonably happy about having things (decent keyboard, connectivity) that should be t

by twalla 5y ago

The M1 stuff is amazing but it's kind of a sad state of affairs when I'm unreasonably happy about having things (decent keyboard, connectivity) that should be table stakes for a professional level laptop. Mostly just bummed that we appear to have traded one gimmick - the touchbar, for another - the notch.

acchow 5y ago
The notch is a design tradeoff, not a gimmick.
- incrudible 5y ago
  It is a gimmick. There are laptops with slim bezels, HD cameras and no notch whatsoever. If it was a tradeoff, they would've made it smaller. It's a branding effort. Remember, they're referring to the notch as iconic.
  - zepto 5y ago
    Which laptops are you thinking of?
  - acchow 5y ago
    Wouldn’t removing the notch require either the bezel to become wider or the display thickness to increase to fit the camera hardware? The older macbooks just have a wider bezel and that’s where the camera goes. Which laptops have neither? This new macbook has a 3.5mm bezel and achieves it with the camera in the "notch". By comparison, the thinnest non-mac bezel I've seen is the Huawei Matebook at 4.4mm but it puts in the camera in the keyboard facing upwards towards your face (awkward angle "nosecam"). Which means your fingers can show up in the camera if you're typing during a video call.
    - incrudible 5y ago
      The current Dell XPS has slim bezels, way slimmer than a current Macbook. Perhaps not as slim as this one, but it's not a meaningful difference, I'd take it over a notch any day. The camera is at the top.
      - acchow 5y ago
        The XPS also compromised - the camera quality is terrible, especially in non-optimal lighting. "That camera is really embarrassing given the price tag. We got one for our CEO as a replacement.... everything was working well until he had a video meeting.... so embarrassing" extensive thread on this discussion: https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/XPS13-9300-2020-version-webcam-very-poor-quality/td-p/7561977 https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/XPS13-9300-2020-version-w... You can see the difference for yourself at 3:13 here https://youtu.be/QgFd_w2n1es?t=193 https://youtu.be/QgFd_w2n1es?t=193 Grainy, ghosting, compression artifacts, and looks like the FPS is lower too.
      - acchow 5y ago
        Here's more comical discussion of the XPS camera: https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/XPS-15-9500-camera-webcam-terrible-quality/td-p/7666773/page/3 https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/XPS-15-9500-camera-webcam... "This webcam is disgusting. They won’t admit it when you call. They keep telling you to install drivers and redo every install you have." "It's the image sensor they went with... Bottom of the barrel $0.52 sensor. I'm skipping this generation of XPS entirely and keeping with my Macbook Pro for a number of reasons. 1. The trackpad is horrible 2. The software had too many bugs (brightness, sound crackles, fans) 3. The keyboard isn't that great 4. The camera quality" "I have this same problem with a new XPS 15 9500: blurry & grainy camera/webcam. Lots of complaints with those on Zoom, Goggle Meets, etc. with me. Help! Can this be fixed or should I return my 2-month old computer??" "The stock webcam is by far the worst feature of the XPS. I’m also disappointed with the unreliability of the trackpad." "Same here, everything that has been said. Camera is <Profanity removed. Dell-Admin>, embarrassing for Dell and for me, should I choose to use it"
        incrudible 5y ago
        Macbook cameras are awful as well. That's besides the point. It doesn't mean it "can't be done". You could have a 4K front-facing camera in a tiny pinhole, like in many Android phones. It's just not something laptop makers put a focus on, because customers tend to not care, or at least they didn't until video-conferencing became ubiquitous.

by twalla 5y ago

acchow 5y ago

The notch is a design tradeoff, not a gimmick.

incrudible 5y ago
It is a gimmick. There are laptops with slim bezels, HD cameras and no notch whatsoever. If it was a tradeoff, they would've made it smaller. It's a branding effort. Remember, they're referring to the notch as iconic.
- zepto 5y ago
  Which laptops are you thinking of?
- acchow 5y ago
  Wouldn’t removing the notch require either the bezel to become wider or the display thickness to increase to fit the camera hardware? The older macbooks just have a wider bezel and that’s where the camera goes. Which laptops have neither? This new macbook has a 3.5mm bezel and achieves it with the camera in the "notch". By comparison, the thinnest non-mac bezel I've seen is the Huawei Matebook at 4.4mm but it puts in the camera in the keyboard facing upwards towards your face (awkward angle "nosecam"). Which means your fingers can show up in the camera if you're typing during a video call.
  - incrudible 5y ago
    The current Dell XPS has slim bezels, way slimmer than a current Macbook. Perhaps not as slim as this one, but it's not a meaningful difference, I'd take it over a notch any day. The camera is at the top.
    - acchow 5y ago
      The XPS also compromised - the camera quality is terrible, especially in non-optimal lighting. "That camera is really embarrassing given the price tag. We got one for our CEO as a replacement.... everything was working well until he had a video meeting.... so embarrassing" extensive thread on this discussion: https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/XPS13-9300-2020-version-webcam-very-poor-quality/td-p/7561977 https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/XPS13-9300-2020-version-w... You can see the difference for yourself at 3:13 here https://youtu.be/QgFd_w2n1es?t=193 https://youtu.be/QgFd_w2n1es?t=193 Grainy, ghosting, compression artifacts, and looks like the FPS is lower too.
    - acchow 5y ago
      Here's more comical discussion of the XPS camera: https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/XPS-15-9500-camera-webcam-terrible-quality/td-p/7666773/page/3 https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/XPS-15-9500-camera-webcam... "This webcam is disgusting. They won’t admit it when you call. They keep telling you to install drivers and redo every install you have." "It's the image sensor they went with... Bottom of the barrel $0.52 sensor. I'm skipping this generation of XPS entirely and keeping with my Macbook Pro for a number of reasons. 1. The trackpad is horrible 2. The software had too many bugs (brightness, sound crackles, fans) 3. The keyboard isn't that great 4. The camera quality" "I have this same problem with a new XPS 15 9500: blurry & grainy camera/webcam. Lots of complaints with those on Zoom, Goggle Meets, etc. with me. Help! Can this be fixed or should I return my 2-month old computer??" "The stock webcam is by far the worst feature of the XPS. I’m also disappointed with the unreliability of the trackpad." "Same here, everything that has been said. Camera is <Profanity removed. Dell-Admin>, embarrassing for Dell and for me, should I choose to use it"
      - incrudible 5y ago
        Macbook cameras are awful as well. That's besides the point. It doesn't mean it "can't be done". You could have a 4K front-facing camera in a tiny pinhole, like in many Android phones. It's just not something laptop makers put a focus on, because customers tend to not care, or at least they didn't until video-conferencing became ubiquitous.