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But that notch is kind of a really ugly blight on the face of an otherwise good looking update. Especially since it's lacking faceid or something equivalent to

But that notch is kind of a really ugly blight on the face of an otherwise good looking update. Especially since it's lacking faceid or something equivalent to windows hello

cmckn 5y ago
I agree that the notch is a bit large to just be a 1080p webcam. I don’t hate it though, aesthetically. If the next iteration doesn’t have Face ID, I’ll be a bit annoyed. Seriously considering trading in my M1 MacBook Air for the 14”. Tim Cook really knows how to drain my accounts!
ssijak 5y ago
it is useful because it will be on the middle of the status bar. After 2 hours my guess nobody would notice anything weird. Like with the iphones, but this one actually makes sense.
- threatofrain 5y ago
  It conflicts with existing Apple design decisions, such as Safari in full-screen with the compact tabs, or Apple Calendar in full screen mode. I wonder how that will work.
  - airstrike 5y ago
    I don't think Apple really designed Safari to be ordinarily used in full-screen with compact tabs.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - alexandrius 5y ago
    Full Screen apps do not use notch space as seen in their full screen demos
    - dont__panic 5y ago
      So they're not really "full screen" any more? Why even bother with the feature, and just switch it to "maximize" instead?
      - threatofrain 5y ago
        Except for purposes of immersion in games and movies, I might just always have the top menu bar visible if the treatment for many full screen apps is just to have an opaque black bar with no content.
      - Gigachad 5y ago
        They are as big as pre notch. It's just now the toolbar has moved in to a space which was once black bezel. Full screen is still useful for hiding the toolbar for a distraction free view.
- jlokier 5y ago
  It won't be in the middle of the status bar when running anything full screen. Some people run applications full screen most of the time. For example the browser, text editor, chat, etc. I wonder if it automatically inserts a black bar in those situations.
  - BluSyn 5y ago
    It does.
- oblio 5y ago
  People will get used to it... but they could have just shifted the screen down, using that chin. For example there are plenty Windows laptops with 3:2 aspect rations, where they use up all the vertical space. They could have just moved everything down for IMO a slightly better design.
awill 5y ago
sure. But with video conferencing being a new part of the job, it's likely a good tradeoff
- kllrnohj 5y ago
  https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-14-and-16/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-14-and-16/ Looking at the product photos it looks like they black-bar the entire top of the display when anything is full-screen? So that seems to make the notch even more intrusive as you lose out on all the screen real-estate next to it when something is fullscreen. Or rather, the menu bar is now a permanent bezel that nothing else can occupy?
  - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
    > you lose out on all the screen real-estate next to it when something is fullscreen That would have been bezel in a notchless design.
    - ilikehurdles 5y ago
      As someone who always hides the menu bar, though, having a notch is going to kill being able to switch tabs in Chrome, search in Outlook, or broadly, use any controls at the top of a window in maximized mode. I’m guessing the hidden menu bar is going away on this machine because it would break usability of all other apps.
      - andy_ppp 5y ago
        Someone will write an app that blacks this bit out for you and you can carry with your life like an Englishman in a Parisian restaurant…
    - kllrnohj 5y ago
      The bezel wouldn't have been as big. The resulting "fake bezel" is larger than necessary to house the camera, as it needs to shift where the camera is relative to the physical dimensions of the display and the border that it needs. Just see literally any other laptop that has both a fairly small bezel and fits a webcam in it, like the Dell XPS 13. The camera in the macbook may be better and require a larger lens assembly as a result, but it's surely not as big as the bezel + notch itself requires.
stavros 5y ago
I guess we always have the option of showing black on that part of the screen and effectively getting the old display back (ie a huge bezel).
nsxwolf 5y ago
You get more usable screen though. I am curious how legacy apps with way-too-many menus will display with the split.
- thebean11 5y ago
  They'll display the same way they did on the smaller screens, or with lower DPI settings enabled I'm guessing.
- agloeregrets 5y ago
  The split is in the global menu bar which is owned by Apple design wise. It will be interesting but I imagine it will work fine, also don't forget early OSX builds had a centered Apple Logo with logic to handle this.
- nowherebeen 5y ago
  My only concern is if it will distract me from work with it always sticking out.
acdha 5y ago
Go back to when the iPhone introduced the notch. There were so many comments just like yours but when was the last time you heard anyone say anything about it? It gets a lot of attention because it's quite visible — literally right in front of your eyes — but it's also in an area which is dead space most of the time and the most common scenario where it isn't is full screen video conferencing, when you'll be glad for the better quality.
- wayneftw 5y ago
  There are literally still so many comments just like that and plenty of people who simply won't buy a phone that has a notch. The comments never stopped. The screenshots showing application menus almost hitting the notch are ugly af. I'm sure that there are applications that have even more menus than Photoshop or Premiere.
  - acdha 5y ago
    > There are literally still so many comments just like that and plenty of people who simply won't buy a phone that has a notch. The comments never stopped. … and yet, sales have continued to be extremely high, which suggests that is a self-selected group of extremely vocal opponents rather than a real market trend.
    - wayneftw 5y ago
      ...as if the notch is the only deciding factor. I hate the notch, but I'll still buy iPhones all day long if my only other choice is to buy products with questionable privacy from an advertising company versus dealing with Apple's shitty designs.
  - aseipp 5y ago
    That's their point, it's literally self selection: people who do not care about the notch are not going to write comments about it, and people who care are never going to shut up about it, giving an extremely poor window for understanding how much it actually matters or how it impacts real use. That complaints like this are self-selective is both well known and the OP's entire point; it's amazing how much effort all the replies seem to be going through to not understand this.
julienb_sea 5y ago
The notch is an explicit design choice, it's visible and iconic. It differentiates the new models and you can make a reasonable argument that space is always used by the status bar in macos currently, so this is a net improvement without question.

But that notch is kind of a really ugly blight on the face of an otherwise good looking update. Especially since it's lacking faceid or something equivalent to windows hello

cmckn 5y ago

I agree that the notch is a bit large to just be a 1080p webcam. I don’t hate it though, aesthetically. If the next iteration doesn’t have Face ID, I’ll be a bit annoyed. Seriously considering trading in my M1 MacBook Air for the 14”. Tim Cook really knows how to drain my accounts!

ssijak 5y ago

it is useful because it will be on the middle of the status bar. After 2 hours my guess nobody would notice anything weird. Like with the iphones, but this one actually makes sense.

threatofrain 5y ago
It conflicts with existing Apple design decisions, such as Safari in full-screen with the compact tabs, or Apple Calendar in full screen mode. I wonder how that will work.
- airstrike 5y ago
  I don't think Apple really designed Safari to be ordinarily used in full-screen with compact tabs.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- alexandrius 5y ago
  Full Screen apps do not use notch space as seen in their full screen demos
  - dont__panic 5y ago
    So they're not really "full screen" any more? Why even bother with the feature, and just switch it to "maximize" instead?
    - threatofrain 5y ago
      Except for purposes of immersion in games and movies, I might just always have the top menu bar visible if the treatment for many full screen apps is just to have an opaque black bar with no content.
    - Gigachad 5y ago
      They are as big as pre notch. It's just now the toolbar has moved in to a space which was once black bezel. Full screen is still useful for hiding the toolbar for a distraction free view.
jlokier 5y ago
It won't be in the middle of the status bar when running anything full screen. Some people run applications full screen most of the time. For example the browser, text editor, chat, etc. I wonder if it automatically inserts a black bar in those situations.
- BluSyn 5y ago
  It does.
oblio 5y ago
People will get used to it... but they could have just shifted the screen down, using that chin. For example there are plenty Windows laptops with 3:2 aspect rations, where they use up all the vertical space. They could have just moved everything down for IMO a slightly better design.

awill 5y ago

sure. But with video conferencing being a new part of the job, it's likely a good tradeoff

kllrnohj 5y ago
https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-14-and-16/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-14-and-16/ Looking at the product photos it looks like they black-bar the entire top of the display when anything is full-screen? So that seems to make the notch even more intrusive as you lose out on all the screen real-estate next to it when something is fullscreen. Or rather, the menu bar is now a permanent bezel that nothing else can occupy?
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > you lose out on all the screen real-estate next to it when something is fullscreen That would have been bezel in a notchless design.
  - ilikehurdles 5y ago
    As someone who always hides the menu bar, though, having a notch is going to kill being able to switch tabs in Chrome, search in Outlook, or broadly, use any controls at the top of a window in maximized mode. I’m guessing the hidden menu bar is going away on this machine because it would break usability of all other apps.
    - andy_ppp 5y ago
      Someone will write an app that blacks this bit out for you and you can carry with your life like an Englishman in a Parisian restaurant…
  - kllrnohj 5y ago
    The bezel wouldn't have been as big. The resulting "fake bezel" is larger than necessary to house the camera, as it needs to shift where the camera is relative to the physical dimensions of the display and the border that it needs. Just see literally any other laptop that has both a fairly small bezel and fits a webcam in it, like the Dell XPS 13. The camera in the macbook may be better and require a larger lens assembly as a result, but it's surely not as big as the bezel + notch itself requires.

stavros 5y ago

I guess we always have the option of showing black on that part of the screen and effectively getting the old display back (ie a huge bezel).

nsxwolf 5y ago

You get more usable screen though. I am curious how legacy apps with way-too-many menus will display with the split.

thebean11 5y ago
They'll display the same way they did on the smaller screens, or with lower DPI settings enabled I'm guessing.
agloeregrets 5y ago
The split is in the global menu bar which is owned by Apple design wise. It will be interesting but I imagine it will work fine, also don't forget early OSX builds had a centered Apple Logo with logic to handle this.
nowherebeen 5y ago
My only concern is if it will distract me from work with it always sticking out.

acdha 5y ago

Go back to when the iPhone introduced the notch. There were so many comments just like yours but when was the last time you heard anyone say anything about it? It gets a lot of attention because it's quite visible — literally right in front of your eyes — but it's also in an area which is dead space most of the time and the most common scenario where it isn't is full screen video conferencing, when you'll be glad for the better quality.

wayneftw 5y ago
There are literally still so many comments just like that and plenty of people who simply won't buy a phone that has a notch. The comments never stopped. The screenshots showing application menus almost hitting the notch are ugly af. I'm sure that there are applications that have even more menus than Photoshop or Premiere.
- acdha 5y ago
  > There are literally still so many comments just like that and plenty of people who simply won't buy a phone that has a notch. The comments never stopped. … and yet, sales have continued to be extremely high, which suggests that is a self-selected group of extremely vocal opponents rather than a real market trend.
  - wayneftw 5y ago
    ...as if the notch is the only deciding factor. I hate the notch, but I'll still buy iPhones all day long if my only other choice is to buy products with questionable privacy from an advertising company versus dealing with Apple's shitty designs.
- aseipp 5y ago
  That's their point, it's literally self selection: people who do not care about the notch are not going to write comments about it, and people who care are never going to shut up about it, giving an extremely poor window for understanding how much it actually matters or how it impacts real use. That complaints like this are self-selective is both well known and the OP's entire point; it's amazing how much effort all the replies seem to be going through to not understand this.

julienb_sea 5y ago

The notch is an explicit design choice, it's visible and iconic. It differentiates the new models and you can make a reasonable argument that space is always used by the status bar in macos currently, so this is a net improvement without question.