6 ms·

Can't believe they did so many positive changes with the MBP only to add the notch from the phone in too. Almost the perfect update. Does this mean every app in

Can't believe they did so many positive changes with the MBP only to add the notch from the phone in too. Almost the perfect update. Does this mean every app in full screen has to be updated to account for it? > posted in wrong thread so copying here

foldr 5y ago
I suspect there'll be a setting to have the notch area ignored for full screen apps by default, or something like that.
phyalow 5y ago
Not a huge deal for me, I dont notice it on my phone, I dont expect I will on my new Mac either.
randyrand 5y ago
By default full screen apps do not use that space. It remains be black.
_kush 5y ago
> Does this mean every app in full screen has to be updated to account for it? A simple black bar in full screen apps would be sufficient I guess.
- etempleton 5y ago
  I wonder. Maybe full screen will behave differently and the menu bar will never be hidden? Otherwise I am looking at my web browser in full screen and how do you design around that? You have to push the tabs down anyway, might as well just make the menu bar static.
  - have_faith 5y ago
    You could get clever and have apps program around it as a dead zone (tabs jump either side of it when moving them around) but sounds like a pain.
gjsman-1000 5y ago
No, remember that the notch extends the display upward, and does not expand downward into the display. Apple's reasoning is now you get a 16:10 display without having the top menu bar enroaching within it. Which I'm perfectly fine with. Useless black area made useful.
- mohanmcgeek 5y ago
  Is MacOS also going to restrict all apps that run full-screen to the 16:10 display area and not the strip? If they have done that, it's fine. But even then I can think of a bunch of people who buy MacBooks to run Linux.. it's going to be a showstopper for them.
  - thebean11 5y ago
    Isn't that space just menu bar 99% of the time in Linux also?
Slow_Hand 5y ago
I don't see much issue with having a notch on a laptop since it now lives in the middle of the menu bar now. That's typically negative space in most apps anyways.
- have_faith 5y ago
  For my full screen web browser it's right where the tabs go.
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    I was going to answer "presumably this is why Safari has always put tabs below the address bar", but the most recent version finally changed that by default. :\
  - dkonofalski 5y ago
    No it's not. In previous iterations, your tabs went below the camera. This doesn't change that.
    - have_faith 5y ago
      Not sure I understand your distinction, the screen is taller now, if my browser wants to render to the top of the screen it has to contend with the notch.
      - dkonofalski 5y ago
        If your browser changes nothing, the top bar will be blacked out and your tabs will display exactly as before. This only changes if your browser explicitly updates to handle the notched display.
      - buu700 5y ago
        It sounds like they're saying the OS will automatically add a black bar to the top in fullscreen mode, which will look seamless thanks to the contrast rate of mini LED. If that is the case, it sounds like a pretty elegant solution and significantly reduces my concern about the notch. It also addresses my confusion about some of the images on Apple's website.
wodenokoto 5y ago
I can’t believe they didn’t color the menu-bar black to hide the notch. I suppose the notch is only in the way if you are watching 4:3 video in full screen. For every other use case, the notch is hidden in either the menu bar or black, horizontal bars. I’m also wondering if the led backlighting is arranged so that backlight is completely turned off in the black horizontal bars shown when viewing 16:9 video in full screen.
- have_faith 5y ago
  >I’m also wondering if the led backlighting is arranged so that backlight is completely turned off in the black horizontal bars shown when viewing 16:9 video in full screen. That would likely help a lot, very interested to see it in action.
bmitc 5y ago
I can’t believe they’ve done that either. I’d honestly consider getting one, but I can’t stand notches on any device. And I’m sure we’ll see everyone else start to copy this “feature”.
concinds 5y ago
The Apple Event showed that full-screen apps and videos have a black bar extending the whole notch height; which still leaves you with an Apple standard 16:10 screen area. Since it's mini-LED, it'll be just as black as the previous bezels, and since the non-notch area is still 16:10, you're not missing anything at all; and the menu bar in a sense "doesn't take any usable space" anymore.
- tylerhou 5y ago
  Nit: mini-LED is not the same thing as micro-LED, so it remains to be seen whether the LEDs are small enough/aligned in such a way that the black bar at the top doesn't have any backlight bleed. (Maybe this was mentioned in the presentation...)
  - concinds 5y ago
    The funny thing is I checked the webpage to make sure I got it right, but still copied it wrong. Ha! Thanks for the correction They did announce a very high contrast ratio so hopefully it won't be too bad.
playpause 5y ago
Maybe I've drunk the Apple Kool-Aid, but there's another way to look at this: it's a perfectly rectangular 16:10 display, plus they've added an extra (albeit imperfect) strip along the top, 74 pixels high, allowing them to push the macOS menu bar into the bezel, leaving you with a clean and unencumbered 16:10 desktop area for your content.
- trenchgun 5y ago
  This is a good framing. It is not a loss, it is a pure gain.
- prewett 5y ago
  That makes me happier, but it's a deep gash into an otherwise perfect rectangle. It's a little like the buying a brand new table (or car) and the first thing you do is accidentally put deep gouge in it. Perfectly serviceable? Yes. But still needlessly marred for the life of the product.
  - pb7 5y ago
    It's function over form. Exactly what people always say Apple should focus on.
  - jmkni 5y ago
    Speed holes? -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whnms4CLJys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whnms4CLJys
- mproud 5y ago
  Yep!
zeitg3ist 5y ago
I wonder how it will work with a mouse. What happens when you’re hovering the menu bar and go inside the dead area? Does the cursor disappear and return on the other side? Making the dead area unvisitable (so the cursor keeps following the border) seems the most logical solution probably, but it makes it very awkward to go from one menu item to the next if the notch is between them.
nickysielicki 5y ago
That portion of my screen on my Mac has been a solid grey square with no meaningful information for 99.9% of the time that the laptop has been powered on. The aspect ratio is 16:10 so it’s not going to get in the way of any 16:9 content. I feel like this is a pretty bad take. Would you prefer a solid black bezel?

foldr 5y ago

I suspect there'll be a setting to have the notch area ignored for full screen apps by default, or something like that.

phyalow 5y ago

Not a huge deal for me, I dont notice it on my phone, I dont expect I will on my new Mac either.

randyrand 5y ago

By default full screen apps do not use that space. It remains be black.

_kush 5y ago

> Does this mean every app in full screen has to be updated to account for it? A simple black bar in full screen apps would be sufficient I guess.

etempleton 5y ago
I wonder. Maybe full screen will behave differently and the menu bar will never be hidden? Otherwise I am looking at my web browser in full screen and how do you design around that? You have to push the tabs down anyway, might as well just make the menu bar static.
- have_faith 5y ago
  You could get clever and have apps program around it as a dead zone (tabs jump either side of it when moving them around) but sounds like a pain.

gjsman-1000 5y ago

No, remember that the notch extends the display upward, and does not expand downward into the display. Apple's reasoning is now you get a 16:10 display without having the top menu bar enroaching within it. Which I'm perfectly fine with. Useless black area made useful.

mohanmcgeek 5y ago
Is MacOS also going to restrict all apps that run full-screen to the 16:10 display area and not the strip? If they have done that, it's fine. But even then I can think of a bunch of people who buy MacBooks to run Linux.. it's going to be a showstopper for them.
- thebean11 5y ago
  Isn't that space just menu bar 99% of the time in Linux also?

Slow_Hand 5y ago

I don't see much issue with having a notch on a laptop since it now lives in the middle of the menu bar now. That's typically negative space in most apps anyways.

have_faith 5y ago
For my full screen web browser it's right where the tabs go.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  I was going to answer "presumably this is why Safari has always put tabs below the address bar", but the most recent version finally changed that by default. :\
- dkonofalski 5y ago
  No it's not. In previous iterations, your tabs went below the camera. This doesn't change that.
  - have_faith 5y ago
    Not sure I understand your distinction, the screen is taller now, if my browser wants to render to the top of the screen it has to contend with the notch.
    - dkonofalski 5y ago
      If your browser changes nothing, the top bar will be blacked out and your tabs will display exactly as before. This only changes if your browser explicitly updates to handle the notched display.
    - buu700 5y ago
      It sounds like they're saying the OS will automatically add a black bar to the top in fullscreen mode, which will look seamless thanks to the contrast rate of mini LED. If that is the case, it sounds like a pretty elegant solution and significantly reduces my concern about the notch. It also addresses my confusion about some of the images on Apple's website.

wodenokoto 5y ago

I can’t believe they didn’t color the menu-bar black to hide the notch. I suppose the notch is only in the way if you are watching 4:3 video in full screen. For every other use case, the notch is hidden in either the menu bar or black, horizontal bars. I’m also wondering if the led backlighting is arranged so that backlight is completely turned off in the black horizontal bars shown when viewing 16:9 video in full screen.

have_faith 5y ago
>I’m also wondering if the led backlighting is arranged so that backlight is completely turned off in the black horizontal bars shown when viewing 16:9 video in full screen. That would likely help a lot, very interested to see it in action.

bmitc 5y ago

I can’t believe they’ve done that either. I’d honestly consider getting one, but I can’t stand notches on any device. And I’m sure we’ll see everyone else start to copy this “feature”.

concinds 5y ago

The Apple Event showed that full-screen apps and videos have a black bar extending the whole notch height; which still leaves you with an Apple standard 16:10 screen area. Since it's mini-LED, it'll be just as black as the previous bezels, and since the non-notch area is still 16:10, you're not missing anything at all; and the menu bar in a sense "doesn't take any usable space" anymore.

tylerhou 5y ago
Nit: mini-LED is not the same thing as micro-LED, so it remains to be seen whether the LEDs are small enough/aligned in such a way that the black bar at the top doesn't have any backlight bleed. (Maybe this was mentioned in the presentation...)
- concinds 5y ago
  The funny thing is I checked the webpage to make sure I got it right, but still copied it wrong. Ha! Thanks for the correction They did announce a very high contrast ratio so hopefully it won't be too bad.

playpause 5y ago

Maybe I've drunk the Apple Kool-Aid, but there's another way to look at this: it's a perfectly rectangular 16:10 display, plus they've added an extra (albeit imperfect) strip along the top, 74 pixels high, allowing them to push the macOS menu bar into the bezel, leaving you with a clean and unencumbered 16:10 desktop area for your content.

trenchgun 5y ago
This is a good framing. It is not a loss, it is a pure gain.
prewett 5y ago
That makes me happier, but it's a deep gash into an otherwise perfect rectangle. It's a little like the buying a brand new table (or car) and the first thing you do is accidentally put deep gouge in it. Perfectly serviceable? Yes. But still needlessly marred for the life of the product.
- pb7 5y ago
  It's function over form. Exactly what people always say Apple should focus on.
- jmkni 5y ago
  Speed holes? -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whnms4CLJys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whnms4CLJys
mproud 5y ago
Yep!

zeitg3ist 5y ago

I wonder how it will work with a mouse. What happens when you’re hovering the menu bar and go inside the dead area? Does the cursor disappear and return on the other side? Making the dead area unvisitable (so the cursor keeps following the border) seems the most logical solution probably, but it makes it very awkward to go from one menu item to the next if the notch is between them.

nickysielicki 5y ago

That portion of my screen on my Mac has been a solid grey square with no meaningful information for 99.9% of the time that the laptop has been powered on. The aspect ratio is 16:10 so it’s not going to get in the way of any 16:9 content. I feel like this is a pretty bad take. Would you prefer a solid black bezel?