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At Netflix, a star and employees pressure a top executive over Dave Chappelle
- pwned1 5y agoDear Netflix: please don't cave to the faux outrage machine.
- routrage 5y agoWhat about legitimately outraged people, like the ones being discussed here?
- refenestrator 5y agoThey will absolutely forget all about this in a few weeks.
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- routrage 5y agoInteresting speculation, is it based on anything at all? Louis CK was highly criticized for going back on tour by the same people that criticized him for the sexual misconduct he admitted to in 2017.
- refenestrator 5y agoHow many people are mad at Joe Rogan on this issue at this moment? None, they're all on Chappelle right now, it'll be someone else soon. One other note, on CK, I wonder the overlap between people who want him punished forever and those who support rehabilitation of actual felons.
- routrage 5y agoHow many? Quite a few, I guess you're REALLY out of the loop. This is from 3 days ago: https://www.foxnews.com/media/the-view-hosts-clash-joe-rogan-transphobic-islamophobic-racist-things https://www.foxnews.com/media/the-view-hosts-clash-joe-rogan... Thanks for proving yourself wrong, I guess it was just blind speculation.
- dqx 5y agoJoe Rogan's comments keep coming up in the context of discussion of this issue in recent news; many people are still mad. You've picked a poor example. https://www.salon.com/2021/10/18/tucker-carlson-joe-rogan-and-the-proud-boys-how-the-fragility-of-the-male-ego-fuels-the-far-right/ https://www.salon.com/2021/10/18/tucker-carlson-joe-rogan-an...
- staysafeanon 5y agoSalon is not news, it's yellow journalism.
- dqx 5y ago> FAKE NEWS Interesting opinion, it doesn't change the fact that many people are still mad about Rogan's comments. https://consequence.net/2021/10/team-terf-dave-chappelle/ https://consequence.net/2021/10/team-terf-dave-chappelle/ https://www.foxnews.com/media/the-view-hosts-clash-joe-rogan-transphobic-islamophobic-racist-things https://www.foxnews.com/media/the-view-hosts-clash-joe-rogan...
- refenestrator 5y ago"Many" people is a weasel word, a couple dozen could qualify. It's only an issue for the media-addicted and those who fill airtime for a living.
- dqx 5y agoThank you for agreeing, many (a word you used first) people are still upset about Rogan's comments, disproving your point that "none" are. If you have anything but blind speculation you're going on, feel free to provide it!
- jjk166 5y agoPretty big difference between saying something inappropriate during a comedic performance and jacking off in front of non-consenting people.
- routrage 5y agoAnd one similarity: Louis CK is still highly criticized for going back on tour by the same people that criticized him 5-7 years ago. That is what was being discussed, scroll up to learn more.
- jjk166 5y agoHow is it a similarity if it's only happened to one of them? Chappelle hasn't been criticized after 5-7 years for returning to stand up. You can't ignore why someone is being criticized when discussing whether other people who are being criticized for different reasons will be treated the same way.
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- angelzen 5y agoOutrage is an emotion. By itself it does not lend credibility to your cause. There is an excess of outrage in society, thanks BigSocialMedia. Hoping for a collective calm down.
- Miner49er 5y agoWhether or not you agree with Netflix or not, they are being hypocritical and inconsistent. They went and removed a bunch of shows for having blackface last year (from what I can see, used typically or maybe always for comedy and often in a way that's making fun of racism.) [1] Yet now their CEO is defending this new show and saying, "Adults can watch violence, assault and abuse – or enjoy shocking stand-up comedy – without it causing them to harm others." [2] If so, then why not re-add the previously censored content? [1] https://www.vulture.com/2020/06/blackface-tv-episodes-scenes-removed-streaming.html https://www.vulture.com/2020/06/blackface-tv-episodes-scenes... [2] https://variety.com/2021/film/news/ted-sarandos-dave-chappelle-defense-1235088647/ https://variety.com/2021/film/news/ted-sarandos-dave-chappel...
- virtuous_signal 5y agoThanks for sharing that list, it definitely challenged some of my preconceptions. As someone who watched The Closer and didn't think it went too far, I think most would agree that there should be some fixed line to judge what goes too far and shouldn't be on their platform. It's sad that this line doesn't seem to be determined by any principles -- or at least any explicit principles. These 2 examples make me think the "principles" being followed are 1) Money, and 2) PR/current events (George Floyd protests in the case of removing episodes with blackface).
- gspencley 5y ago"I think most would agree that there should be some fixed line to judge what goes too far and shouldn't be on their platform." I can see the need for things like parental filters, or better user controls to be able to get recommendations for things you actually want to see. I would also be the first person to agree that Netflix has the right to decide what content they want to distribute. But from a customer point of view what I want from Netflix is to give give me maximum choice. Give me absolutely every kind of content imaginable, offensive or G-rated, and then give me the tools to be able to limit what my children can view and to fine tune the sorts of recommendations I get. I'm a huge believer in "if you don't like it, watch something else" and "if someone else likes it, that's none of your business."
- uzakov 5y agoPolitics aside: how much operational and technical risk is staff walkout for companies like Netflix? Ie if 2% of their DevOps engineers leave immediately, would it create any noticeable operational/technical effect for Netflix?
- angryasian 5y agoin the short term, unlikely. If they can't manage to keep their systems running for a few hours during off peak hours, then they have bigger problems.
- uzakov 5y agoLong term, if 3% of their SRE/SWE leave Netflix tomorrow, would it make any noticeable operational/technical difference?
- GaryTang 5y agoDear Netflix: Please fire every single individual that walks out. There are thousands of individuals who have been rejected from roles at your company that would look at this situation in a rational light.
- handoflixue 5y agoSo you're calling on Netflix to "cancel" these employees because they're expressing political views you don't agree with? And the political views you're so bothered by are... employees calling on Netflix to "cancel" someone who expressed political views they don't agree with? How is this not just flagrant hypocrisy
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- errantmind 5y agoYou make an implicit assumption that firing is the same as cancelling which hasn't been established. Also, they can be legally fired for walking out of work. Not all political expression is legally protected with regards to further employment.
- staysafeanon 5y ago>How is this not just flagrant hypocrisy It's not at all. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
- Dma54rhs 5y agoNetflix doesn't owe them a job, does it? They can do what they want with their company.
- Imnimo 5y agoPresumably Netflix feels that those rejected people lack the skill and expertise of the people they hired instead. Would Netflix be willing to take the downgrade to avoid having employees protest?
- angryasian 5y agoIts interesting to me that at one time the idea of separating politics and work used to be standard decorum. I do think we as human beings obviously can not shut off our feelings, its important for companies to realize this and allow their employees to disagree and express themselves. In the end, its still up to employees to be mature about it.
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- Barrin92 5y ago>Its interesting to me that at one time the idea of separating politics and work used to be standard decorum it's a mirage of sorts. Exercising sovereign power and drawing the line where politics ends is in itself political, in fact it's arguably the most political act there is. What's changed is not 'how much' politics there is but where the power lies. tech workers in contrast to a lot of people in the past have significant leverage, because they're relatively few in numbers, in high demand, and have fairly homogenous views which happen to conflict with the people who own all the stuff. Which makes for a fairly combustible combination.
- throwawaysea 5y agoWhy do companies fear loud Twitter mobs or small groups of vocal activist employees? These companies can simply ignore them or fire them if they aren’t doing their job. It is best for tech companies to be politically neutral. After all, half the country and much of the world don’t hold progressive Bay Area views. Serving and representing them is just as important and employees need to maturely deal with it or quit.
- angelzen 5y agoA legal precedent was set by González v. Abercrombie & Fitch. Being seen on the wrong side of the diversity issue becomes a legal liability that everybody avoids. Issues that everybody avoids morph into cultural dogma via groupthink. The role of Twitter mobs is to buildup and maintain pressure, which, at the very least, raises the concrete risk of legal damages. See, for example, the recent Tesla $137M discrimination verdict. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abercrombie_%26_Fitch#Employment_practices https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abercrombie_%26_Fitch#Employme... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzalez_v._Abercrombie_%26_Fitch_Stores,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzalez_v._Abercrombie_%26_Fi....
- Jeff_Brown 5y agoExpanding on the question, what are good examples of angry Twitter mobs that ended up costing companies a lot of money? (With or without the legal system being the source of those losses.)
- playcache 5y agoI wonder how much of a Streisand effect this is having on viewing figures of the Special.
- Zenbit_UX 5y agoLikely a lot, especially as it was quite mediocre compared to most of Dave's past works.
- wodenokoto 5y ago> In a rare public rebuke, the Australian comedian Hannah Gadsby upbraided Mr. Sarandos by name for his defense of Mr. Chappelle. Say what you want about the whole thing, but the two comedy shows with Hannah Gadsby on Netflix are _really_ good and I recommend everyone to watch them.
- throwaway879080 5y agoif they cancel Dave Chappelle I cancel my Netflix subscription.
- notyourNMI 5y agoSo in other words: Netflix will go on a hiring binge soon... It may not be the truth some want to hear, but Netflix will likely be more than happy to identify "troublemakers" with this planned walkout, even if they're fantastically productive otherwise. Many C-suite see themselves as leaders "going in to battle" leading an "army". The last things leaders tolerate in an army are deserters and overly objectionable types.
- Zenbit_UX 5y agoI think Dave has done a lot of good work at normalizing the Trans community through his jokes. He doesn't punch down like some have asserted. Even though I feel like this last special wasn't great, at no point did I feel like he was Trans phobic or unkind. Does he go far? Absolutely, likely further than anyone else would dare go... But his jokes are his medium for making people think about societies deeper issues. One of the best examples of this is "how old is 15 really?" (YouTube it). While taking that sketch at face value or out of context it could be construed as a savage attack on a 15yr old girl who was the victim of a kidnapping. But anyone with half a brain should be able to deconstruct the underlying message and see what the real takeaway is. He shocks you first, then he makes you think.