8 ms·

Colin Powell is a textbook case of "A thousand 'Atta-boys!' and one fuck-up!". He joined the Army in the 1950s, served through 2 tours in Vietnam, and made it

Colin Powell is a textbook case of "A thousand 'Atta-boys!' and one fuck-up!". He joined the Army in the 1950s, served through 2 tours in Vietnam, and made it all the way to Chairman of the Joint Chiefs by the end of the 1980s, leading the military through Operation Desert Storm and the post-Soviet era. That's a rare career for ANY American, let alone a black one. But all that went "poof!" after his shameful performance at the UN in 2003. Agreed that he should have resigned in protest instead. What an ignoble reputational end to an otherwise amazing role model. RIP Sir.

AndrewBissell 5y ago
I don't really see rising through the ranks of the U.S. military through the 70s/80s/90s as particularly praiseworthy either. Powell did the job he did at the UN because he was a company man and had been for a long time. And in addition to a few tut-tuts and a black mark on his record, it also kept him in the good graces of the Washington foreign policy blob, with all the sinecures, speaking fees, magazine profiles, and mostly-hagiographic obituaries that come with it.
- h2odragon 5y ago
  Many disagree. As to "company man" ... Watch "Mars Attacks!" for the best portrayal of Colin Powell to hit the big screen.
  - merpnderp 5y ago
    Do they disagree with any arguments, or just wishful thinking? My Lai and the UN are just the most glaring examples of him putting his career before everything else. I still don't understand how a person who tried to cover up (in the most laughably inept manner) the massacre of civilians by the US Army didn't spend the rest of his life as a pariah, let alone get positive press in the media for decades. Then add in his lying to the UN to start a war and you wonder if there's no crime that can't be forgiven as long as that person supports the powers that be.
    - h2odragon 5y ago
      I have had discussion with people who I must credit with being sincere, who believed Mr Powell was a true American Hero whose accomplishments and achievements should be lauded and emulated. I didn't agree with or understand their arguments well enough to try repeating them. I think those arguing that way were praising a faithful servant to any master, with no morals or principle of his own. as if thats a good thing to be. I hope im wrong and just failed to understand them.
      - merpnderp 5y ago
        The court cases allowing many of of the Vietnamese atrocities to go unpunished allowed people to claim they were "just following orders." You might not be wrong...
        CulturalMarxism 5y ago
        > unpunished I'll have you know that William Calley Jr served three-and-a-half years under house arrest.
- bluedevil2k 5y ago
  > I don't really see rising through the ranks of the U.S. military through the 70s/80s/90s as particularly praiseworthy either Did you see any other black men doing the same thing?
  - uncletaco 5y ago
    The answer is yes but of course none were as famous or went as far as Powell.
    - bluedevil2k 5y ago
      So…then the answer is “no”
  - merpnderp 5y ago
    You mean covering up war crimes and lying to the UN to start wars, and being rewarded by the establishment for doing it? I should hope not. You realize when he was tasked with looking into one of the worst US war crimes in recent history he said it couldn't have happened because the Vietnamese and US soldiers are like BFF's. Worst coverup in history, yet his loyalty was rewarded.
_3ddw 5y ago
I was 17 when we invaded Afghanistan and 19 when we invaded Iraq. Through the lead-up to both of those conflicts I remember watching scores of demonstrators marching outside the White House, chanting slogans against the wars. What did they know that Colin Powell did not?
- coldtea 5y ago
  >What did they know that Colin Powell—a Vietnam vet, mind you!—did not? Nothing. They just had different interests: his to promote his career and feed the imperial machine, theirs to end war. >If you’re not even 20, that outcome might not have been obvious. But if you served two tours in Vietnam and are in your 50s, you should know better If you care about the country/justice/etc, which is a big if in politics.
- tokai 5y ago
  Well Powell had experience covering up a massacre during the Vietnam war, so it was all par for the course for him.
- koheripbal 5y ago
  The invasion of Afghanistan should not be lumped in with Iraq. The first had broad public support in both parties and in the public. ... over 90%. As well as support from NATO, the EU, and many other nations as it was an operation to get Osama Bin Laden after 9/11. The invasion of Iraq was far more controversial and motivated by oil politics. They are completely different animals.
  - _3ddw 5y ago
    > The invasion of Afghanistan should not be lumped in with Iraq. > The first had broad public support in both parties and in the public. ... over 90% Certainly. But that is exactly what leaders are for: Good leaders worth mourning transform knowledge and sage wisdom into actions that should sometimes run counter to popular public will, and do not always bow under public pressure. Good leaders guide their people away from tragic error, at times when popular opinion would lead the population into the abyss, like it did in 2001. If your conception of leadership is people who at all times merely execute the public will, then what you have are actually automata. Why bother with human leaders at all, then? We could just automate government to follow public opinion based on mass polling.
ikerdanzel 5y ago
Basically, a role model for people NOT to role model to. Being a yes sir man with very little self opinions and assertions aren't exactly what we want our kids to aspire to.
pessimizer 5y ago
The only reason we knew who Colin Powell was is because he lied about My Lai. Lying about Iraq was the crowning achievement of a lifetime of being the kindly, authoritative black face parroting deceptive establishment narratives to the public.
GoodJokes 5y ago
How is a career imperialist a role model? Classic war mongering liberal take.
NoGravitas 5y ago
This is your reminder that being assigned to cover up the My Lai massacre was the thing that really jumpstarted Powell's career. His 2003 UN speech was part and parcel of what his career was built on. Reference: http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/colin3.html http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/colin3.html Edited to add: he also appears to have lied under oath about his knowledge of the Iran-Contra affair. Ref: https://consortiumnews.com/2000/121900b.html https://consortiumnews.com/2000/121900b.html
- 1cvmask 5y ago
  The NY Times and Washington Post also refused to publish the My Lai massacre before an unknown at the time freelance journalist Seymour Hersh broke the story in the western press more than a year after. There are also a great visuals of the massacre in the Ken Burns documentary Vietnam War. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mỹ_Lai_massacre#Media_coverage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mỹ_Lai_massacre#Media_coverage Two major national news press outlets — The New York Times and The Washington Post, received some tips with partial information but did not act on them. Ridenhour called Seymour Hersh on 22 October 1969. The freelance investigative journalist conducted an independent inquiry, and published to break the wall of silence that was surrounding the Mỹ Lai massacre. Hersh initially tried to sell the story to Life and Look magazines; both turned it down. Hersh went to the small, Washington-based Dispatch News Service, which sent it to fifty major American newspapers; thirty accepted it for publication.[157] New York Times reporter Henry Kamm investigated further and found several survivors of the Mỹ Lai massacre in Sou
basisword 5y ago
I find it interesting that you frame fighting in Vietnam as something admiral. I can understand why those drafted against their will may have chose the option but surely the most admiral thing to do would have been to refuse and suffer the consequences?
ASalazarMX 5y ago
> That's a rare career for ANY American, let alone a black one. I had to do an image search of him because until now, I didn't think of him as "black". He's certainly mixed race, which would make him black and white. Is it usual in USA to call people black if they kinda look black? Edit: according to Wikipedia, his ancestry is mixed Scottish and African, parents immigrants from Jamaica. He was raised in South Bronx, so he's culturally black even if he doesn't look that black.
- aklemm 5y ago
  “Culturally black” is the only kind of black there is. That’s why if you look even a little black you end living the black experience, because that’s how people approach you.
trasz 5y ago
Now imagine saying all this stuff about "role model" if he was responsible for killing a million civilian Americans instead.

AndrewBissell 5y ago

I don't really see rising through the ranks of the U.S. military through the 70s/80s/90s as particularly praiseworthy either. Powell did the job he did at the UN because he was a company man and had been for a long time. And in addition to a few tut-tuts and a black mark on his record, it also kept him in the good graces of the Washington foreign policy blob, with all the sinecures, speaking fees, magazine profiles, and mostly-hagiographic obituaries that come with it.

h2odragon 5y ago
Many disagree. As to "company man" ... Watch "Mars Attacks!" for the best portrayal of Colin Powell to hit the big screen.
- merpnderp 5y ago
  Do they disagree with any arguments, or just wishful thinking? My Lai and the UN are just the most glaring examples of him putting his career before everything else. I still don't understand how a person who tried to cover up (in the most laughably inept manner) the massacre of civilians by the US Army didn't spend the rest of his life as a pariah, let alone get positive press in the media for decades. Then add in his lying to the UN to start a war and you wonder if there's no crime that can't be forgiven as long as that person supports the powers that be.
  - h2odragon 5y ago
    I have had discussion with people who I must credit with being sincere, who believed Mr Powell was a true American Hero whose accomplishments and achievements should be lauded and emulated. I didn't agree with or understand their arguments well enough to try repeating them. I think those arguing that way were praising a faithful servant to any master, with no morals or principle of his own. as if thats a good thing to be. I hope im wrong and just failed to understand them.
    - merpnderp 5y ago
      The court cases allowing many of of the Vietnamese atrocities to go unpunished allowed people to claim they were "just following orders." You might not be wrong...
      - CulturalMarxism 5y ago
        > unpunished I'll have you know that William Calley Jr served three-and-a-half years under house arrest.
bluedevil2k 5y ago
> I don't really see rising through the ranks of the U.S. military through the 70s/80s/90s as particularly praiseworthy either Did you see any other black men doing the same thing?
- uncletaco 5y ago
  The answer is yes but of course none were as famous or went as far as Powell.
  - bluedevil2k 5y ago
    So…then the answer is “no”
- merpnderp 5y ago
  You mean covering up war crimes and lying to the UN to start wars, and being rewarded by the establishment for doing it? I should hope not. You realize when he was tasked with looking into one of the worst US war crimes in recent history he said it couldn't have happened because the Vietnamese and US soldiers are like BFF's. Worst coverup in history, yet his loyalty was rewarded.

_3ddw 5y ago

I was 17 when we invaded Afghanistan and 19 when we invaded Iraq. Through the lead-up to both of those conflicts I remember watching scores of demonstrators marching outside the White House, chanting slogans against the wars. What did they know that Colin Powell did not?

coldtea 5y ago
>What did they know that Colin Powell—a Vietnam vet, mind you!—did not? Nothing. They just had different interests: his to promote his career and feed the imperial machine, theirs to end war. >If you’re not even 20, that outcome might not have been obvious. But if you served two tours in Vietnam and are in your 50s, you should know better If you care about the country/justice/etc, which is a big if in politics.
tokai 5y ago
Well Powell had experience covering up a massacre during the Vietnam war, so it was all par for the course for him.
koheripbal 5y ago
The invasion of Afghanistan should not be lumped in with Iraq. The first had broad public support in both parties and in the public. ... over 90%. As well as support from NATO, the EU, and many other nations as it was an operation to get Osama Bin Laden after 9/11. The invasion of Iraq was far more controversial and motivated by oil politics. They are completely different animals.
- _3ddw 5y ago
  > The invasion of Afghanistan should not be lumped in with Iraq. > The first had broad public support in both parties and in the public. ... over 90% Certainly. But that is exactly what leaders are for: Good leaders worth mourning transform knowledge and sage wisdom into actions that should sometimes run counter to popular public will, and do not always bow under public pressure. Good leaders guide their people away from tragic error, at times when popular opinion would lead the population into the abyss, like it did in 2001. If your conception of leadership is people who at all times merely execute the public will, then what you have are actually automata. Why bother with human leaders at all, then? We could just automate government to follow public opinion based on mass polling.

ikerdanzel 5y ago

Basically, a role model for people NOT to role model to. Being a yes sir man with very little self opinions and assertions aren't exactly what we want our kids to aspire to.

pessimizer 5y ago

The only reason we knew who Colin Powell was is because he lied about My Lai. Lying about Iraq was the crowning achievement of a lifetime of being the kindly, authoritative black face parroting deceptive establishment narratives to the public.

GoodJokes 5y ago

How is a career imperialist a role model? Classic war mongering liberal take.

NoGravitas 5y ago

This is your reminder that being assigned to cover up the My Lai massacre was the thing that really jumpstarted Powell's career. His 2003 UN speech was part and parcel of what his career was built on. Reference: http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/colin3.html http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/colin3.html Edited to add: he also appears to have lied under oath about his knowledge of the Iran-Contra affair. Ref: https://consortiumnews.com/2000/121900b.html https://consortiumnews.com/2000/121900b.html

1cvmask 5y ago
The NY Times and Washington Post also refused to publish the My Lai massacre before an unknown at the time freelance journalist Seymour Hersh broke the story in the western press more than a year after. There are also a great visuals of the massacre in the Ken Burns documentary Vietnam War. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mỹ_Lai_massacre#Media_coverage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mỹ_Lai_massacre#Media_coverage Two major national news press outlets — The New York Times and The Washington Post, received some tips with partial information but did not act on them. Ridenhour called Seymour Hersh on 22 October 1969. The freelance investigative journalist conducted an independent inquiry, and published to break the wall of silence that was surrounding the Mỹ Lai massacre. Hersh initially tried to sell the story to Life and Look magazines; both turned it down. Hersh went to the small, Washington-based Dispatch News Service, which sent it to fifty major American newspapers; thirty accepted it for publication.[157] New York Times reporter Henry Kamm investigated further and found several survivors of the Mỹ Lai massacre in Sou

basisword 5y ago

I find it interesting that you frame fighting in Vietnam as something admiral. I can understand why those drafted against their will may have chose the option but surely the most admiral thing to do would have been to refuse and suffer the consequences?

ASalazarMX 5y ago

> That's a rare career for ANY American, let alone a black one. I had to do an image search of him because until now, I didn't think of him as "black". He's certainly mixed race, which would make him black and white. Is it usual in USA to call people black if they kinda look black? Edit: according to Wikipedia, his ancestry is mixed Scottish and African, parents immigrants from Jamaica. He was raised in South Bronx, so he's culturally black even if he doesn't look that black.

aklemm 5y ago
“Culturally black” is the only kind of black there is. That’s why if you look even a little black you end living the black experience, because that’s how people approach you.

trasz 5y ago

Now imagine saying all this stuff about "role model" if he was responsible for killing a million civilian Americans instead.