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Then i'm curious what your definition would be? Because when you run out of ICU space, there is triage. There was triage last week. There is triage next week.
by ralfn 5y ago
Then i'm curious what your definition would be?
Because when you run out of ICU space, there is triage. There was triage last week. There is triage next week.
Who gets care first?
My point is that many people who are unvaccinated would prefer this, than to be forced to be vaccinated. (and they are effectively forced now in many places)
There were two arguments used to justify this imposition:
(a) - the herd immunity helps protect those can't protect themselves (too young, too old, immuno compromised)
(b) - it overwelms the health care infrastructure making it so that in certain places people can't get emergency care because the ICU's are full
Now the first argument (a) seems to be not true, and the second argument (b) seems to me like 'personal responsibility'. If you want to freedom to make these decisions for yourself (such as to get vaccinated), you are only accountable for the consequences of that for yourself.
The idea that you demand to not be vaccinated, but still get first-come-first-served emergency medical care at the expense of others, sounds to me entitled, spoiled and selfish.
- cudgy 5y agoSo, if it turned out that the vaccine caused side effects that resulted in large cases in the ICU or cancer incidents down the road, you are willing to put them at the end of the line since they decided to take the vaccine? Do you not see how many variations of this argument can be made and how nonsensical the results would be? City dwellers have increased incidence of cancer or whatever other ailment, so their choice to live in cities precludes them from medical services. Marijuana smokers have higher incidences of x so they don’t get treatment. Motorcycle, bicycle, and scooter drivers are risky actors so their choices preclude them from care. Where does it end? Doesn’t seem like freedom to me.
- ralfn 5y ago>Where does it end? When there are enough ICU nurses available to meet the demand. >Doesn’t seem like freedom to me. Again, can you give me a definition. It sounds like something 'empty' an American would say. Do you mean, Liberty? Like from the French Revolution? This discussion doesn't matter in the US anyway, because you already have economic triage, where there is just no hospital near poor people. So in the US, the poor people are just 'free to die'.
- roca 5y agoWhen we need to triage it absolutely makes sense to take into account how much the ailment depended on the patient's known-to-be-risky choices. Motorcyclists and drug users, sure. Since the major vaccines have minimal known side effects, we should not now or later blame people for taking them.