6 ms·

If I were a western city, I would simply build enough housing for residents and visitors.

that_guy_iain 5y ago
How about we have non-expensive hotels for visitors? Having the apartment next to you suddenly turn into a hotel with a rolving door of people who may or may not act like they're on holiday partying would drive most people nuts. It's not just about the housing shortage but also the fact most people don't want to live in a hotel.
majjam 5y ago
No you cant, there isn't any room.
- saddlerustle 5y ago
  Yes there is. Amsterdam has about a quarter the population density of Paris
  - eecc 5y ago
    Amsterdam is closer in concept to a Flemish trade town than to an imperial core like the French capital.
  - bidirectional 5y ago
    Yes, first raze everything to the ground so we can rebuild at a different density.
  - Hendrikto 5y ago
    And you think that means 3/4 of the plots are empty?
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  That's why we MADE room: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flevoland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flevoland
zwirbl 5y ago
and as a city you would be unlikely to generate such brilliant comments
piva00 5y ago
Yeah, then I believe you gotta read this [1] and this [2]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/27/building-homes-britain-housing-crisis https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/27/buildi... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/may/30/readers-reply-if-the-uk-built-1m-homes-what-would-happen-to-house-prices https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/may/30/readers-reply-...
jimvdv 5y ago
That’s very easy to say, much harder to do. Also you still want to keep tourist concentrations low in certain areas to keep neighbourhoods liveable.
bartread 5y ago
I don't especially mind tourists in moderate numbers - after all, from time to time, I play the tourist myself. However, I live and work in Cambridge, and if we were to put what you suggest into practice the city would become an absolutely intolerable place to be for everyone. AirBnb may or may not be a big problem here but, if it is, it's a subset of a bigger problem: buy to let. I'd like to see buy to let severely curtailed within the city, as it's certainly driving up already high prices for buyers.
- Ekaros 5y ago
  I really see no issues with buy to let if supply is sufficiently high. Sad reality is that building new units is too expensive. Realistically, real estate should not be very good investment. Maybe it should generate 1-2% a net per year and in 50-100 year timeframe depreciate to zero.
  - zhdc1 5y ago
    > Realistically, real estate should not be very good investment. Real estate isn't a particularly attractive investment, even in the best of times. Single family homes net around 8%, which is 2-4% less per year than what you would expect to get with an index fund. This is with leverage. It only becomes lucrative when you have a change in interest rates (lower mortgage payments leads to higher cash returns), demand (which is why AirBnB rentals are so popular), or regulations. Of course, the occasional property will sell for well under market, but so will any other type of asset. > Maybe it should generate 1-2% a net per year and in 50-100 year timeframe depreciate to zero. I think you're suggesting that real estate should have a lower annual return than other forms of investing, which I agree with and - in general - is what actually happens.
    - mrep 5y ago
      There is actually less than a 1% difference and residential real estate is far far less volatile and that is for post 1950. Before 1950, real estate did better than equities [0]. [0] Table on page 15 from the pdf: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19817584 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19817584
em500 5y ago
If you were in the city government of a large western city, you'd know there's a huge number of often conflicting demands of the citizenry. Most of them do not support building enough housing for all potential visitors. And while many are not explicitly opposed to increased housing for future residents, few will want that to happen close to where they live. If you go directly against the wishes of most of the residents, you will not find yourself in the city government for very long. So I think this "simply build enough housing" is only a good solution in internet forum comments.
jacquesm 5y ago
If you were Amsterdam, you'd realize that there is no space within the city limits to do so.

How about we have non-expensive hotels for visitors? Having the apartment next to you suddenly turn into a hotel with a rolving door of people who may or may not act like they're on holiday partying would drive most people nuts. It's not just about the housing shortage but also the fact most people don't want to live in a hotel.

majjam 5y ago

No you cant, there isn't any room.

saddlerustle 5y ago
Yes there is. Amsterdam has about a quarter the population density of Paris
- eecc 5y ago
  Amsterdam is closer in concept to a Flemish trade town than to an imperial core like the French capital.
- bidirectional 5y ago
  Yes, first raze everything to the ground so we can rebuild at a different density.
- Hendrikto 5y ago
  And you think that means 3/4 of the plots are empty?
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
That's why we MADE room: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flevoland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flevoland

zwirbl 5y ago

and as a city you would be unlikely to generate such brilliant comments

piva00 5y ago

Yeah, then I believe you gotta read this [1] and this [2]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/27/building-homes-britain-housing-crisis https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/27/buildi... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/may/30/readers-reply-if-the-uk-built-1m-homes-what-would-happen-to-house-prices https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/may/30/readers-reply-...

jimvdv 5y ago

That’s very easy to say, much harder to do. Also you still want to keep tourist concentrations low in certain areas to keep neighbourhoods liveable.

bartread 5y ago

I don't especially mind tourists in moderate numbers - after all, from time to time, I play the tourist myself. However, I live and work in Cambridge, and if we were to put what you suggest into practice the city would become an absolutely intolerable place to be for everyone. AirBnb may or may not be a big problem here but, if it is, it's a subset of a bigger problem: buy to let. I'd like to see buy to let severely curtailed within the city, as it's certainly driving up already high prices for buyers.

Ekaros 5y ago
I really see no issues with buy to let if supply is sufficiently high. Sad reality is that building new units is too expensive. Realistically, real estate should not be very good investment. Maybe it should generate 1-2% a net per year and in 50-100 year timeframe depreciate to zero.
- zhdc1 5y ago
  > Realistically, real estate should not be very good investment. Real estate isn't a particularly attractive investment, even in the best of times. Single family homes net around 8%, which is 2-4% less per year than what you would expect to get with an index fund. This is with leverage. It only becomes lucrative when you have a change in interest rates (lower mortgage payments leads to higher cash returns), demand (which is why AirBnB rentals are so popular), or regulations. Of course, the occasional property will sell for well under market, but so will any other type of asset. > Maybe it should generate 1-2% a net per year and in 50-100 year timeframe depreciate to zero. I think you're suggesting that real estate should have a lower annual return than other forms of investing, which I agree with and - in general - is what actually happens.
  - mrep 5y ago
    There is actually less than a 1% difference and residential real estate is far far less volatile and that is for post 1950. Before 1950, real estate did better than equities [0]. [0] Table on page 15 from the pdf: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19817584 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19817584

em500 5y ago

If you were in the city government of a large western city, you'd know there's a huge number of often conflicting demands of the citizenry. Most of them do not support building enough housing for all potential visitors. And while many are not explicitly opposed to increased housing for future residents, few will want that to happen close to where they live. If you go directly against the wishes of most of the residents, you will not find yourself in the city government for very long. So I think this "simply build enough housing" is only a good solution in internet forum comments.

jacquesm 5y ago

If you were Amsterdam, you'd realize that there is no space within the city limits to do so.