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I'd say the biggest neglect was not being touched by his mother as a baby. That kind of invisible neglect of babies is perhaps the worst kind of child abuse. Th

I'd say the biggest neglect was not being touched by his mother as a baby. That kind of invisible neglect of babies is perhaps the worst kind of child abuse. They have no memory of what happened or why they're screwed but they're emotionally damaged for life. They can't even get understanding from others by saying they were beaten or raped or whatever. It's seen by people as not "real" abuse or not even known at all by anyone except the parent.

ur-whale 5y ago
> I'd say the biggest neglect was not being touched by his mother as a baby. I have heard of this multiple times, mostly in social conversations. It's likely not great not being touched as a baby, but I wonder if there's is actual science around the topic? For example, there's bound to be some nurture vs nature aspect to this.
- tdrdt 5y ago
  The only experiment is Frederick's experiment. This was a very long time ago but I can imagine nobody does want to repeat this experiment.
  - ur-whale 5y ago
    > The only experiment is Frederick's experiment. Wasn't thinking of experiments (obviously), but rather data collected in the population on unfortunate but existing cases to try and correlate lack of affection as a baby with specific behaviors as an adult. [EDIT]: btw, thanks for the pointer, I had never heard of Frederick's experiment [1] [1] https://signsofthetimes.org.au/2018/08/fredericks-experiment/ https://signsofthetimes.org.au/2018/08/fredericks-experiment...
    - FDSGSG 5y ago
      This might be obvious, but despite what the article claims those children didn't "literally die for want of touch". This is not a real thing that happens.
- xnyan 5y ago
  This is not scientific so not exactly what you are looking for, but I think I can say from personal experience that not being touched/held as an infant can and often does have horrible outcomes. I volunteered in an orphanage in eastern europe. The staff did the best they could, but they were severely underfunded. It was the best they could do to feed, change diapers and take care of the most acute medical needs of the large number of infants in their care. Just holding them even for a brief amount of time often was not possible, though they did try the best they could. The results were heartbreaking. Some children did not speak, others constantly cried, most seemed "OK" but had emotional problems that expressed as aggression or other developmental issues. Growing up in an orphanage is never easy, but you could usually instantly tell if a child was born in the orphanage or came there later (even as young as one year with parents made a huge difference). It was one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever experienced in my life, and even more than a decade later thinking about that orphanage makes me want to cry.

ur-whale 5y ago

> I'd say the biggest neglect was not being touched by his mother as a baby. I have heard of this multiple times, mostly in social conversations. It's likely not great not being touched as a baby, but I wonder if there's is actual science around the topic? For example, there's bound to be some nurture vs nature aspect to this.

tdrdt 5y ago
The only experiment is Frederick's experiment. This was a very long time ago but I can imagine nobody does want to repeat this experiment.
- ur-whale 5y ago
  > The only experiment is Frederick's experiment. Wasn't thinking of experiments (obviously), but rather data collected in the population on unfortunate but existing cases to try and correlate lack of affection as a baby with specific behaviors as an adult. [EDIT]: btw, thanks for the pointer, I had never heard of Frederick's experiment [1] [1] https://signsofthetimes.org.au/2018/08/fredericks-experiment/ https://signsofthetimes.org.au/2018/08/fredericks-experiment...
  - FDSGSG 5y ago
    This might be obvious, but despite what the article claims those children didn't "literally die for want of touch". This is not a real thing that happens.
xnyan 5y ago
This is not scientific so not exactly what you are looking for, but I think I can say from personal experience that not being touched/held as an infant can and often does have horrible outcomes. I volunteered in an orphanage in eastern europe. The staff did the best they could, but they were severely underfunded. It was the best they could do to feed, change diapers and take care of the most acute medical needs of the large number of infants in their care. Just holding them even for a brief amount of time often was not possible, though they did try the best they could. The results were heartbreaking. Some children did not speak, others constantly cried, most seemed "OK" but had emotional problems that expressed as aggression or other developmental issues. Growing up in an orphanage is never easy, but you could usually instantly tell if a child was born in the orphanage or came there later (even as young as one year with parents made a huge difference). It was one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever experienced in my life, and even more than a decade later thinking about that orphanage makes me want to cry.