5 ms·

The only positive mainstream review I’ve seen of his special was not all that positive, but that it was really a Rorschach test for your political leanings. Wha

The only positive mainstream review I’ve seen of his special was not all that positive, but that it was really a Rorschach test for your political leanings. What are the chances not one mainstream outlet had a positive review, was it really that unfunny? He makes jokes about Jews, and Blacks, and Whites, that are completely overshadowed by Twitter (which is not a real place) claiming it was entirely anti-trans. No one is claiming it was his funniest, but there was a subtext there. That it wasn’t about them, but about him. He’s not wrong at how successful without violence the trans movement has been compared to civil rights for blacks. I thought the goal was to be offensive at the beginning and end with the message that canceling comedians for jokes is bad for everyone.

silexia 5y ago
Dave Chappelle's new special is well worth watching. It is one of the best pieces of comedy by the greatest comedian of our time.
lkey 5y ago
More black trans women were violently murdered in 2020 than in any other year since HRC began tracking. https://www.hrc.org/resources/fatal-violence-against-the-transgender-and-gender-non-conforming-community-in-2021 https://www.hrc.org/resources/fatal-violence-against-the-tra... 2021 is looking to surpass that... Part of his criticism was centered around how the 'alphabet people' have made rapid strides, but that conveniently forgets that black people can be gay or trans too, and also haven't made the same gains white LGBTQ folks have. I'll gladly cede that America is more structurally and culturally anti-black than they are anti-LGBTQ, but that isn't the argument he was making. This is a pet peeve of mine, but someone actually tell me which millionaire/billionaire actually remained 'cancelled' after being cancelled. As far as I can tell, the only people actually being cancelled are the trans people being fired from their jobs for finding the special distasteful and voicing that publicly.
- SuoDuanDao 5y ago
  >This is a pet peeve of mine, but someone actually tell me which millionaire/billionaire actually remained 'cancelled' after being cancelled. Papa John?
  - lkey 5y ago
    I'm fairly certain that was primarily his coke? habit and the n-word fiasco was the excuse the board needed. Also he definitely was given interviews afterward while he was promising a very sweaty 'day of reckoning'. https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1199167890370510848 https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1199167890370510848 But fair enough, I haven't seen much of him since.
- SlowRobotAhead 5y ago
  That list of murdered trans people is awful. I wonder why only two I could find were trans men, and almost all were in large cities? Is it that much safer to be a trans man than a trans woman? It’s a shame there isn’t any details at all around the circumstances of their deaths. I wonder if that could have relevant content at all?
  - empthought 5y ago
    The majority were killed by their partners, who were of course not at all radical feminists.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > This is a pet peeve of mine, but someone actually tell me which millionaire/billionaire actually remained 'cancelled' after being cancelled. From what I gather, Louis CK and Garrison Keillor are still cancelled (e.g. reduced to releasing stuff on their own personal websites). Also, the kind of people who get canceled are entertainers and academics, and few if any of those are billionaires. I'm not even sure how "canceling" a billionaire would even work.
- pseudo0 5y ago
  It's rather disingenuous to point at the increase in murders like that, given how 2020 saw a huge spike in murders year over year for the general population. So 44 trans people were murdered in 2020, out of a total of 21,570 in the US [0]. Estimates for the trans population range from 0.39% [1] to 0.58% [2]. That's about 2-3x lower than we'd expect, as a population of that size with an equivalent murder rate would have 84-125 homicides per year. If we zoom in on black trans people and compare them to the black population as a whole, 27 were murdered compared to 9,941 for the black population [3]. Doing a bit of napkin math, and with the assumption that the rate of transgender identification is the same in the black and non-black populations, and using 46.9 million for the black population, we get: 21.2 murders / 100k for the black population 16.2-24.1 murders / 100k for the black trans population (using 0.58% for the first figure, and 0.39% for the second). So the surprising conclusion seems to be that the trans population has a significantly lower homicide victimization rate compared to the general population, and black trans population has a slightly lower rate than the black population. And if anything, I'd expect this gap to expand once correcting for age (the trans population skews younger) and the rapid increase in trans identification over the few years. [0] - https://www.statista.com/statistics/191134/reported-murder-and-nonnegligent-manslaughter-cases-in-the-us-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/191134/reported-murder-a... [1] - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/ [2] - https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/transgender-population-by-state https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/transgender... [3] - https://crime-data-explorer.app.cloud.gov/pages/explorer/crime/shr https://crime-data-explorer.app.cloud.gov/pages/explorer/cri...
  - elgernon 5y ago
    this is the kind of comment I come to HN for, informative and based on facts.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - staysafeanon 5y ago
jml78 5y ago
Here is how I took it. I watched it the day it came out before I read the outrage. I am a southern raised white male. I have seen Dave live. I HAD been a fan of his stuff. I had some issues with his comedy in the past but nothing that made me avoid it. However, this special rang different to me. This special felt the same as white dudes I have heard my entire life. White dudes who would say racist shit and turn around to say they aren’t racist because they have black friends. I felt Dave did the exact same with his trans friend. He used that friendship to try to shield his comedy. Look, Dave doesn’t need our money. He doesn’t need any fucking person supporting him. Dude has so much money it doesn’t matter. So I do wonder why so many people are so desperately trying to defend transphobic comedy routines? Stand away from the comedian and take a stand on what Dave’s actual views are. Own them yourself and defend those views. I think in 20 years you will look back and realize you held shitty views or at least society will
- SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
  What his views are? That he was deeply upset his trans friend committed suicide, that he feels it was at least partly because she defended him online, that Twitter sucks and people do things there they would never in life, that he made a trust for Daphne’s daughter, that he is against bathroom laws, that he used his platform to try and stop the bullying of people with social media, that he is a true advocate for free speech? IDK, maybe he is a complex person and maybe you disagree, but I can’t find the monster. > I think in 20 years you will look back and realize you held shitty views or at least society will I think my views 20 years ago were near exactly what they are now. What if it’s yours that change? Then was Chapelle ok again? What if your or my or his opinion doesn’t matter and everyone should be free to have their own and that is just ok even if someone else thinks it’s wrong?
  - jml78 5y ago
    By your post you justify that racism is ok because people should just accept people should be free to have ideas. I agree, they can have those ideas but they aren’t free from the consequences of having shitty ideas. Yes I believe people can change. As for his views, he straight up said he was a trans exclusionary radical feminist. He said it multiple times in the special. Go look at what that means. He is AGAINST legislation for trans rights. This is no different than white people saying we didn’t need the black civil rights movement. Let me put it another way, my mom is an old white women who was alive during integration of the schools. She is racist as shit. She has a black friend. If her black friend dies first, she will absolutely be at her friend’s funeral. She loves her black friend. My mom would say her friend is “one of the good” ones. My mom is straight up racist. Having and caring about an individual in a group she is racist against doesn’t mean she isn’t racist. Dave cared about his friend. He cares about his family. But he said what he is. No one put those words in his mouth. He said he was a Terf
voisin 5y ago
I just didn’t find the jokes funny. They didn’t seem clever or surprising or anything. It felt like he didn’t try.
andreskytt 5y ago
Mainstream media is very cautious about causing a mass exodus of their customers. That’s why this whole thing is scary: a random group of people, easy to ignite deliberately, can shift what many people see or hear. That’s scary.

silexia 5y ago

Dave Chappelle's new special is well worth watching. It is one of the best pieces of comedy by the greatest comedian of our time.

lkey 5y ago

More black trans women were violently murdered in 2020 than in any other year since HRC began tracking. https://www.hrc.org/resources/fatal-violence-against-the-transgender-and-gender-non-conforming-community-in-2021 https://www.hrc.org/resources/fatal-violence-against-the-tra... 2021 is looking to surpass that... Part of his criticism was centered around how the 'alphabet people' have made rapid strides, but that conveniently forgets that black people can be gay or trans too, and also haven't made the same gains white LGBTQ folks have. I'll gladly cede that America is more structurally and culturally anti-black than they are anti-LGBTQ, but that isn't the argument he was making. This is a pet peeve of mine, but someone actually tell me which millionaire/billionaire actually remained 'cancelled' after being cancelled. As far as I can tell, the only people actually being cancelled are the trans people being fired from their jobs for finding the special distasteful and voicing that publicly.

SuoDuanDao 5y ago
>This is a pet peeve of mine, but someone actually tell me which millionaire/billionaire actually remained 'cancelled' after being cancelled. Papa John?
- lkey 5y ago
  I'm fairly certain that was primarily his coke? habit and the n-word fiasco was the excuse the board needed. Also he definitely was given interviews afterward while he was promising a very sweaty 'day of reckoning'. https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1199167890370510848 https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1199167890370510848 But fair enough, I haven't seen much of him since.
SlowRobotAhead 5y ago
That list of murdered trans people is awful. I wonder why only two I could find were trans men, and almost all were in large cities? Is it that much safer to be a trans man than a trans woman? It’s a shame there isn’t any details at all around the circumstances of their deaths. I wonder if that could have relevant content at all?
- empthought 5y ago
  The majority were killed by their partners, who were of course not at all radical feminists.
tablespoon 5y ago
> This is a pet peeve of mine, but someone actually tell me which millionaire/billionaire actually remained 'cancelled' after being cancelled. From what I gather, Louis CK and Garrison Keillor are still cancelled (e.g. reduced to releasing stuff on their own personal websites). Also, the kind of people who get canceled are entertainers and academics, and few if any of those are billionaires. I'm not even sure how "canceling" a billionaire would even work.
pseudo0 5y ago
It's rather disingenuous to point at the increase in murders like that, given how 2020 saw a huge spike in murders year over year for the general population. So 44 trans people were murdered in 2020, out of a total of 21,570 in the US [0]. Estimates for the trans population range from 0.39% [1] to 0.58% [2]. That's about 2-3x lower than we'd expect, as a population of that size with an equivalent murder rate would have 84-125 homicides per year. If we zoom in on black trans people and compare them to the black population as a whole, 27 were murdered compared to 9,941 for the black population [3]. Doing a bit of napkin math, and with the assumption that the rate of transgender identification is the same in the black and non-black populations, and using 46.9 million for the black population, we get: 21.2 murders / 100k for the black population 16.2-24.1 murders / 100k for the black trans population (using 0.58% for the first figure, and 0.39% for the second). So the surprising conclusion seems to be that the trans population has a significantly lower homicide victimization rate compared to the general population, and black trans population has a slightly lower rate than the black population. And if anything, I'd expect this gap to expand once correcting for age (the trans population skews younger) and the rapid increase in trans identification over the few years. [0] - https://www.statista.com/statistics/191134/reported-murder-and-nonnegligent-manslaughter-cases-in-the-us-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/191134/reported-murder-a... [1] - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/ [2] - https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/transgender-population-by-state https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/transgender... [3] - https://crime-data-explorer.app.cloud.gov/pages/explorer/crime/shr https://crime-data-explorer.app.cloud.gov/pages/explorer/cri...
- elgernon 5y ago
  this is the kind of comment I come to HN for, informative and based on facts.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- staysafeanon 5y ago

jml78 5y ago

Here is how I took it. I watched it the day it came out before I read the outrage. I am a southern raised white male. I have seen Dave live. I HAD been a fan of his stuff. I had some issues with his comedy in the past but nothing that made me avoid it. However, this special rang different to me. This special felt the same as white dudes I have heard my entire life. White dudes who would say racist shit and turn around to say they aren’t racist because they have black friends. I felt Dave did the exact same with his trans friend. He used that friendship to try to shield his comedy. Look, Dave doesn’t need our money. He doesn’t need any fucking person supporting him. Dude has so much money it doesn’t matter. So I do wonder why so many people are so desperately trying to defend transphobic comedy routines? Stand away from the comedian and take a stand on what Dave’s actual views are. Own them yourself and defend those views. I think in 20 years you will look back and realize you held shitty views or at least society will

SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
What his views are? That he was deeply upset his trans friend committed suicide, that he feels it was at least partly because she defended him online, that Twitter sucks and people do things there they would never in life, that he made a trust for Daphne’s daughter, that he is against bathroom laws, that he used his platform to try and stop the bullying of people with social media, that he is a true advocate for free speech? IDK, maybe he is a complex person and maybe you disagree, but I can’t find the monster. > I think in 20 years you will look back and realize you held shitty views or at least society will I think my views 20 years ago were near exactly what they are now. What if it’s yours that change? Then was Chapelle ok again? What if your or my or his opinion doesn’t matter and everyone should be free to have their own and that is just ok even if someone else thinks it’s wrong?
- jml78 5y ago
  By your post you justify that racism is ok because people should just accept people should be free to have ideas. I agree, they can have those ideas but they aren’t free from the consequences of having shitty ideas. Yes I believe people can change. As for his views, he straight up said he was a trans exclusionary radical feminist. He said it multiple times in the special. Go look at what that means. He is AGAINST legislation for trans rights. This is no different than white people saying we didn’t need the black civil rights movement. Let me put it another way, my mom is an old white women who was alive during integration of the schools. She is racist as shit. She has a black friend. If her black friend dies first, she will absolutely be at her friend’s funeral. She loves her black friend. My mom would say her friend is “one of the good” ones. My mom is straight up racist. Having and caring about an individual in a group she is racist against doesn’t mean she isn’t racist. Dave cared about his friend. He cares about his family. But he said what he is. No one put those words in his mouth. He said he was a Terf

voisin 5y ago

I just didn’t find the jokes funny. They didn’t seem clever or surprising or anything. It felt like he didn’t try.

andreskytt 5y ago

Mainstream media is very cautious about causing a mass exodus of their customers. That’s why this whole thing is scary: a random group of people, easy to ignite deliberately, can shift what many people see or hear. That’s scary.