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> I only wish the up/down arrow buttons were normal size, like on Thinkpads. Funny, I much prefer a full-size Right-Shift key, which usually requires compact u

> I only wish the up/down arrow buttons were normal size, like on Thinkpads. Funny, I much prefer a full-size Right-Shift key, which usually requires compact up/down arrow keys. I hate typing on keyboards with tiny, stunted little right-shift keys. I use Right-Shift much more than the arrow keys.

hexo 5y ago
My right shift key on thinkpad is full size and i've got full size up/down arrow buttons too (on a 12.5 inch laptop). So it definitely is doable and there is no need for tradeoffs.
- samueldr 5y ago
  I can't say for your particular model, since you didn't list it, but there is generally a trade-off: the arrow keys make the keyboard area larger and less "squared" (rectangled) as they will protrude from the bottom of the keyboard. This, in turn, is a trade-off for manufacturing. It will increase the cost of everything slightly. The keyboard unit itself as it will be larger, maye be harder to produce. Machining or producing the chassis now requires accounting for an additional cut. This is all solvable, yes. Though it is harder for smaller scale productions. It is likely they are working with vendors that, themselves, only have "entirely rectangular" keyboards as this is what the market ends up wanting for cost reasons.
exdsq 5y ago
I don’t remember the last time I used the right shift key! I must use it sometimes, I just can’t think when
- rgoulter 5y ago
  Yeah, I believe ideally, you'd use the right-hand modifiers when pressing keys on the left hand side, and vice versa. I think the asymmetric, row-staggered layout that keyboards have discourages this. Though, a fancy technique many keyboard-enthusiasts will use is to have dual-use keys. e.g. Tap-Hold dual use. The key acts the same when tapped, but acts as a modifier key when held. e.g. changing Capslock key to escape when tapped, Ctrl when held is probably the easiest to think of. The best use of tap-hold is for Home-Row modifiers. Putting alt/command/ctrl/shift as modifiers of asdf (and symmetrically, jkl;).
- SkyMarshal 5y ago
  I don't even think about it until I don't have it, then I frequently notice having to hunt for the tiny undersized r-shift and sometimes hitting the up arrow key instead. It's super annoying when it's not there.

hexo 5y ago

My right shift key on thinkpad is full size and i've got full size up/down arrow buttons too (on a 12.5 inch laptop). So it definitely is doable and there is no need for tradeoffs.

samueldr 5y ago
I can't say for your particular model, since you didn't list it, but there is generally a trade-off: the arrow keys make the keyboard area larger and less "squared" (rectangled) as they will protrude from the bottom of the keyboard. This, in turn, is a trade-off for manufacturing. It will increase the cost of everything slightly. The keyboard unit itself as it will be larger, maye be harder to produce. Machining or producing the chassis now requires accounting for an additional cut. This is all solvable, yes. Though it is harder for smaller scale productions. It is likely they are working with vendors that, themselves, only have "entirely rectangular" keyboards as this is what the market ends up wanting for cost reasons.

exdsq 5y ago

I don’t remember the last time I used the right shift key! I must use it sometimes, I just can’t think when

rgoulter 5y ago
Yeah, I believe ideally, you'd use the right-hand modifiers when pressing keys on the left hand side, and vice versa. I think the asymmetric, row-staggered layout that keyboards have discourages this. Though, a fancy technique many keyboard-enthusiasts will use is to have dual-use keys. e.g. Tap-Hold dual use. The key acts the same when tapped, but acts as a modifier key when held. e.g. changing Capslock key to escape when tapped, Ctrl when held is probably the easiest to think of. The best use of tap-hold is for Home-Row modifiers. Putting alt/command/ctrl/shift as modifiers of asdf (and symmetrically, jkl;).
SkyMarshal 5y ago
I don't even think about it until I don't have it, then I frequently notice having to hunt for the tiny undersized r-shift and sometimes hitting the up arrow key instead. It's super annoying when it's not there.