3 ms·

It is also very hard to get buy-in for large new hydro plants. The resevoirs behind the damms cover a lot of area and people don't like their homes being under

It is also very hard to get buy-in for large new hydro plants. The resevoirs behind the damms cover a lot of area and people don't like their homes being under water. There are also ecological considerations like trout and salmon migration. Due to this they are actually demolishing old, low power legacy hydro plants and re-naturalizing the river.

rsj_hn 5y ago
Yup. Somehow climate change is supposed to be this planetary existential threat, but not, you know, so existential as to allow a salmon to be endangered or to risk building a nuclear plant.
- eru 5y ago
  Climate change isn't actually a planetary existential threat, despite all the fear mongering you hear. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impacts_of_climate_change#Aggregate_impacts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impacts_of_climate_ch... and the more alarmist https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/06/impact-climate-change-global-gdp/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/06/impact-climate-change... say that the global economic impact of climate change will likely amount to about 10% of world GDP, and perhaps as much as 20%. Those are huge, huge numbers! But to put them in perspective, it's less than the difference between living in, say, present day US vs present day UK. Big impact, but hardly planetarily existential. And, yes, there's more to live than economics. But if life goes on normally enough that we can even not only still talk about GDP with any meaning, but even say that we are going to preserve 80% to 90% of GDP, things won't be too apocalyptic. Keep in mind that this is 80% of a far larger pie than today, since normal economic growth will continue.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Climate change isn't actually a planetary existential threat, despite all the fear mongering you hear. Well, no, the planet will not be destroyed. The issue is the lifestyle of the semi-hairless apes on the planet. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impacts_of_climate_ch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impacts_of_climate_ch... and the more alarmist https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/06/impact-climate-change https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/06/impact-climate-change... say that the global economic impact of climate change will likely amount to about 10% of world GDP, and perhaps as much as 20% No, its that it will grow to that share by 2050 (which is less than 30 years away) and keep growing. > At a (somewhat generous) 3% baseline growth rate, At a fairly generous 3% baseline growth rate, 2.35× current world GDP, for a projected population of 9.7 billion to todays 7.9 billion, so (pre-climate change impacts) a little under double the current GDP/capita. Of course, the losses arent, expected to be evenly distributed among countries, regions, etc., so if you aren't a well-diversified capitalist (say you are working class) and in the wrong place or industry, you have a good chance at seeing dramatically* greater impacts.
    - eru 5y ago
      Yes, those are big impacts. Just not existential impacts even just for humanity. > Of course, the losses arent, expected to be evenly distributed among countries, regions, etc., so if you aren't a well-diversified capitalist (say you are working class) and in the wrong place or industry, you have a good chance at seeing dramatically* greater impacts. Yes, averages hide a lot of variance. Of course, this is another good reason in favour of allowing freer migration around the globe.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Of course, this is another good reason in favour of allowing freer migration around the globe. From the perspective of the people in places likely to see lesser adverse impacts, its a reason against freer inbound migration.
        eru 5y ago
        Why? For those people it's at worst a neutral argument, as getting migrants ain't bad for you (and is arguably good). Of course, now we'd have to discuss who 'you' is. If you are talking about individual people, or about eg some statistical measure of the country or county as a whole. See also https://openborders.info/keyhole-solutions/ https://openborders.info/keyhole-solutions/ which would suggest to eg just charge people to immigrate.
  - littlestymaar 5y ago
    > say that the global economic impact of climate change will likely amount to about 10% of world GDP, and perhaps as much as 20%. So maybe that's why governments don't act, relying on abstract GDP numbers. «A good chunk of the tropical era of the world is going to be uninhabitable[1]? Who cares, it's only gonna cost us 10% of GDP». https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/08/climate/climate-change-heat-tropics.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/08/climate/climate-change-he... > it's less than the difference between living in, say, present day US vs present day UK. Big impact, but hardly planetarily existential. Like, the difference between living in Birmingham or living in the death valley? https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/30/world/canada/bc-canada-heat-wave.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/30/world/canada/bc-canada-he...

rsj_hn 5y ago

Yup. Somehow climate change is supposed to be this planetary existential threat, but not, you know, so existential as to allow a salmon to be endangered or to risk building a nuclear plant.

eru 5y ago
Climate change isn't actually a planetary existential threat, despite all the fear mongering you hear. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impacts_of_climate_change#Aggregate_impacts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impacts_of_climate_ch... and the more alarmist https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/06/impact-climate-change-global-gdp/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/06/impact-climate-change... say that the global economic impact of climate change will likely amount to about 10% of world GDP, and perhaps as much as 20%. Those are huge, huge numbers! But to put them in perspective, it's less than the difference between living in, say, present day US vs present day UK. Big impact, but hardly planetarily existential. And, yes, there's more to live than economics. But if life goes on normally enough that we can even not only still talk about GDP with any meaning, but even say that we are going to preserve 80% to 90% of GDP, things won't be too apocalyptic. Keep in mind that this is 80% of a far larger pie than today, since normal economic growth will continue.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Climate change isn't actually a planetary existential threat, despite all the fear mongering you hear. Well, no, the planet will not be destroyed. The issue is the lifestyle of the semi-hairless apes on the planet. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impacts_of_climate_ch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impacts_of_climate_ch... and the more alarmist https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/06/impact-climate-change https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/06/impact-climate-change... say that the global economic impact of climate change will likely amount to about 10% of world GDP, and perhaps as much as 20% No, its that it will grow to that share by 2050 (which is less than 30 years away) and keep growing. > At a (somewhat generous) 3% baseline growth rate, At a fairly generous 3% baseline growth rate, 2.35× current world GDP, for a projected population of 9.7 billion to todays 7.9 billion, so (pre-climate change impacts) a little under double the current GDP/capita. Of course, the losses arent, expected to be evenly distributed among countries, regions, etc., so if you aren't a well-diversified capitalist (say you are working class) and in the wrong place or industry, you have a good chance at seeing dramatically* greater impacts.
  - eru 5y ago
    Yes, those are big impacts. Just not existential impacts even just for humanity. > Of course, the losses arent, expected to be evenly distributed among countries, regions, etc., so if you aren't a well-diversified capitalist (say you are working class) and in the wrong place or industry, you have a good chance at seeing dramatically* greater impacts. Yes, averages hide a lot of variance. Of course, this is another good reason in favour of allowing freer migration around the globe.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Of course, this is another good reason in favour of allowing freer migration around the globe. From the perspective of the people in places likely to see lesser adverse impacts, its a reason against freer inbound migration.
      - eru 5y ago
        Why? For those people it's at worst a neutral argument, as getting migrants ain't bad for you (and is arguably good). Of course, now we'd have to discuss who 'you' is. If you are talking about individual people, or about eg some statistical measure of the country or county as a whole. See also https://openborders.info/keyhole-solutions/ https://openborders.info/keyhole-solutions/ which would suggest to eg just charge people to immigrate.
- littlestymaar 5y ago
  > say that the global economic impact of climate change will likely amount to about 10% of world GDP, and perhaps as much as 20%. So maybe that's why governments don't act, relying on abstract GDP numbers. «A good chunk of the tropical era of the world is going to be uninhabitable[1]? Who cares, it's only gonna cost us 10% of GDP». https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/08/climate/climate-change-heat-tropics.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/08/climate/climate-change-he... > it's less than the difference between living in, say, present day US vs present day UK. Big impact, but hardly planetarily existential. Like, the difference between living in Birmingham or living in the death valley? https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/30/world/canada/bc-canada-heat-wave.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/30/world/canada/bc-canada-he...