3 ms·

Considering most of the terorism attacks are done by a few groups of people, people want to know who did it and why. A better question is, how can someone, imme

Considering most of the terorism attacks are done by a few groups of people, people want to know who did it and why. A better question is, how can someone, immersed in calm and relaxed british enviroment and culture (if we ignore their footbal hooligans of course) get so radicalized by looking at stuff online, to go and actually murder someone. Political correctness aside, it's mostly either local nationalists (which are native, noone "let them in", and there's nowhere to deport them), or first or second generation immigrant islamists (which someone actually let inside the country relatively recently). If it's an immigrant, people of course want to know where they came from... and very few of them come from eg. japan. I know this fuels steretypes, but ignoring statistics is also bad.

rich_sasha 5y ago
I’m all up for statistics, but this is isn’t statistics, this is anecdata at best. Also, make your pick. What was this guy? British? Radical Islamist? Somali? I think these are reasonable labels. But “British but you know, kinda foreign” is unfair. It’s saying, well it’s kind of our fault, we can’t blame any foreigners, but oh look he’s really Somali, so it’s fine. Stiff upper lip prevails, unblemished.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  Well, if statistics show that relatively more second generation somali immigrants do bad stuff than second generation japanese immigrants, that would be an interesting data point. I live in the balkans... back in the time, there was a lot of crime commited by people from here all over rich european countries, and everyone knew that... the germans/french/swiss/... and we, the balkaners did. So yeah, considering the amount of somali immigrants and the number of native brits there, and the MP getting killed by a somali, what is it, that makes somalis more likely to do an act of terrorism? Is it something that they 'learned' from their families? Friends? Church/mosque? Why are immigrants overrepresented in crimes like that? Same for us balkaners... why do more Željkos rob banks than Hans's in germany? This is a thing that should be looked over, and not just ignored, because things like these are not a one-time thing, but have been happening all over europe (and i'm talking about both terrorist attacks by islamists, and mostly money&drugs-related crimes by people from balkans).
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    That is a good question, and one that needs to be answered, but sadly it's not going to be touched for fear of accusations of racism or prejudice against Islam, etc. So the general response from the left is to ban collecting any statistics which might reveal group differences, or to ban publication of such statistics if they are collected, or to assume that any such difference are the results of oppression if they are published. Which is a shame because Europe desperately needs to find a way of integrating these populations, and pretending that there is no problem is just sticking your head in the sand.
  - rich_sasha 5y ago
    Again, I’m all up for that. For methodical collection of information and drawing conclusions without bias for either racist or politically correct viewpoints. But this style of writing, about an individual event, echoed in every media source I can find, is imho irresponsible. Sure, if there’s a rise in crime and terrorism from Somali-heritage Brits, write about it. But not on individual cases. If nothing else, this guy is innocent until proven guilty. What if he’s totally clinically insane? A bunch of people will conclude from such coverage (their error but still) that Somalis are evil British-hating monsters. Not only is this guy not representative of an otherwise diverse group of people, his motives and actions might be nothing to do with his Somali-ness. Maybe he’s the only Black member of the local fox hunt, or did this as part of a New Age pagan cult? I doubt it, but to imply the ethnic connection before anything concrete is known is wrong.
  - pjc50 5y ago
    > I live in the balkans You should know better about the disasters possible when people are stereotyped on their ethnicity.

rich_sasha 5y ago

I’m all up for statistics, but this is isn’t statistics, this is anecdata at best. Also, make your pick. What was this guy? British? Radical Islamist? Somali? I think these are reasonable labels. But “British but you know, kinda foreign” is unfair. It’s saying, well it’s kind of our fault, we can’t blame any foreigners, but oh look he’s really Somali, so it’s fine. Stiff upper lip prevails, unblemished.

ajsnigrutin 5y ago
Well, if statistics show that relatively more second generation somali immigrants do bad stuff than second generation japanese immigrants, that would be an interesting data point. I live in the balkans... back in the time, there was a lot of crime commited by people from here all over rich european countries, and everyone knew that... the germans/french/swiss/... and we, the balkaners did. So yeah, considering the amount of somali immigrants and the number of native brits there, and the MP getting killed by a somali, what is it, that makes somalis more likely to do an act of terrorism? Is it something that they 'learned' from their families? Friends? Church/mosque? Why are immigrants overrepresented in crimes like that? Same for us balkaners... why do more Željkos rob banks than Hans's in germany? This is a thing that should be looked over, and not just ignored, because things like these are not a one-time thing, but have been happening all over europe (and i'm talking about both terrorist attacks by islamists, and mostly money&drugs-related crimes by people from balkans).
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  That is a good question, and one that needs to be answered, but sadly it's not going to be touched for fear of accusations of racism or prejudice against Islam, etc. So the general response from the left is to ban collecting any statistics which might reveal group differences, or to ban publication of such statistics if they are collected, or to assume that any such difference are the results of oppression if they are published. Which is a shame because Europe desperately needs to find a way of integrating these populations, and pretending that there is no problem is just sticking your head in the sand.
- rich_sasha 5y ago
  Again, I’m all up for that. For methodical collection of information and drawing conclusions without bias for either racist or politically correct viewpoints. But this style of writing, about an individual event, echoed in every media source I can find, is imho irresponsible. Sure, if there’s a rise in crime and terrorism from Somali-heritage Brits, write about it. But not on individual cases. If nothing else, this guy is innocent until proven guilty. What if he’s totally clinically insane? A bunch of people will conclude from such coverage (their error but still) that Somalis are evil British-hating monsters. Not only is this guy not representative of an otherwise diverse group of people, his motives and actions might be nothing to do with his Somali-ness. Maybe he’s the only Black member of the local fox hunt, or did this as part of a New Age pagan cult? I doubt it, but to imply the ethnic connection before anything concrete is known is wrong.
- pjc50 5y ago
  > I live in the balkans You should know better about the disasters possible when people are stereotyped on their ethnicity.