8 ms·
China surprises U.S. with hypersonic missile test
- chroem- 5y agoHas anyone else noticed a massive uptick in chinese propaganda across various internet forums in the last 48 hours? My usual sites are getting completely flooded right now. It makes me wonder if something is happening on the ground in china.
- bserge 5y agoYeah I also got several Chinese movie recommendations on Youtube, which was a first. Watched two, surprisingly I don't get them any more. Not that I care, I still wonder why China doesn't have that much good music, especially rock. Folk is fine and all, but like, Japan and Korea seem way ahead in modern stuff.
- 8note 5y agoI don't think china's political/economic system promotes innovation. you can excel at already defined things, but not come up with something new that the party might disagree with.
- User23 5y agoYou wrote this comment in response to an article about China demonstrating a capability no other state has shown. You may want to reassess your priors.
- cassonmars 5y agoWhat? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-to-test-hypersonic-missile-that-can-travel-20-times-speed-of-sound/ar-BB1eEMJi https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-to-test-hypersonic-m...
- toxik 5y agoThe party does not disagree with developing weapons.
- x3n0ph3n3 5y ago> but not come up with something new that the party might disagree with. I think the party is in favor of hypersonic missiles. They often do disagree with cultural output that may question or diminish the supremacy of the CCP.
- robocat 5y agoThe stereotype is that China probably didn’t R&D the capability, instead copying the tech from Russia, US or wherever else.
- short12 5y agoJudging from their track record that is probably correct
- Buxato 5y agoRussia have it.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jml7c5 5y agoWhat do you mean? Comments?
- chroem- 5y agoI follow a lot special-interest online communities that are getting inundated with off-topic pro-china posts. "The west is corrupt and china will save the west." "The US can't possibly stand up to china." Maybe it's just a phenomenon that's unique to my own filter bubble. I'm not sure.
- mrbadideas 5y agoOh, the Evergrande bond payments will either be made or officially default tomorrow. So… you know that will be exciting!!!
- pphysch 5y agoChina is a huge country of 1.4B people, including many English-speaking foreigners. It is certainly not a black box. If something is "happening on the ground" you can be sure to know about it if only via VPN, satellite images, etc. But more likely it would be all out in the open on Weibo, etc.
- partiallypro 5y agoYeah, I've never heard of China hiding what's going on within its borders, totally out of character and impossible.
- pphysch 5y agoVirtually every organization tries to downplay rather than promote bad news--this is not an excuse to believe every rumor that you hear about that organization or person.
- partiallypro 5y agoI will believe virtually any rumor over anything the CCP ever says.
- pphysch 5y agoThat is an excellent way to trick yourself into a host of verifiably false beliefs propagated by special interest groups, and a testament to the success of Washington's propaganda apparatus. For example, you would believe that China didn't effectively contain COVID-19 as the CPC and Chinese media claimed, even though there are countless visible correlations that verify, e.g. measures of economic activity that cannot reasonably be spoofed.
- dang 5y agoThis kind of perception is notoriously unreliable*, so unless you have actual data to offer, please don't go there here. It leads to much lower-quality discussion, because it invites others to jump in with their own projections about hot/divisive issues, and soon we get locked in a feeling-vs.-feeling conflict with no exit. * It's good to remember that randomness inevitably includes sequences that feel like they can't possibly be random. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- Mtinie 5y agoI’ve seen the content reported here in two other places, both which emphasize a “surprised” aspect. However, the link article includes this statement which (to me) indicates that the surprise, if one truly existed, was the test, not the existence of the missile platform: “At a 2019 parade, China showcased advancing weaponry including its hypersonic missile, known as the DF-17.”
- mytailorisrich 5y agoIt's one thing to parade something (which may be a mockup), it's quite another to demonstrate capability. The article suggests that the surprise, if it is real, is the demonstrated capability.
- imeron 5y agohttps://thediplomat.com/2017/12/introducing-the-df-17-chinas-newly-tested-ballistic-missile-armed-with-a-hypersonic-glide-vehicle/ https://thediplomat.com/2017/12/introducing-the-df-17-chinas... This article is from 2017, including mentions of testing.
- dogma1138 5y agoThe surprise was the delivery vehicle/method it was launched into orbit and then deorbited to hit a target. Basically what China just showed is that they are capable of parking these in orbit which would both greatly increase their effective range as well as reduce the signature making them far harder to detect and intercept. It’s basically another Sputnik moment for the US. When the USSR launched Sputnik the US was scared that they’ll launch a bunch of nukes that they would be able to bring down on the US at a moments notice. Keep in mind that back then ICBMs weren’t really a thing yet not to mention a full nuclear triad and that the US had to mainly rely on its bombers to deliver nuclear weapons and its defense primarily focused on shooting incoming soviet bombers. If China parks a bunch of these in space it would mean that any US naval task force or ground force anywhere in the world is now at risk. That’s quite a tectonic shift in the balance of power, and if anything these articles probably downplaying the actual impact something like this can have.
- 5y ago
- goodooojas 5y agoMaybe I'm a fool, but what is the point in things like this anymore, like post nuclear do fancy missiles really make that much difference, as in if china for whatever reason sent a hypersonic missile at the US and blew up a city, couldnt the US just do the same in return but slower? I guess I'm asking why is there investment in stuff like this when we know we have far more powerful things already.
- bigodbiel 5y agoThese aren’t “anti-city” but anti-naval. The point is defanging US maritime power projection by targeting its carrier strike group formations.
- HPsquared 5y agoAnti-ship missiles that are harder to shoot down. Also, possibly missile defense.
- dogma1138 5y agoThese weapons are intended to eliminate or greatly reduce the main strength of the US which is it’s power projection. These won’t be used against cities but they can take out naval groups and any regional bases the US has. If China gets to the point where they can effectively contain US power projection they would be able to operate in their region and much of the Asia Pacific without much of a challenge. Challenging the US blue water capability and thus its power projection with symmetric means is a near fools errand. This is why China is focusing heavily on “carrier killers” and on slow creep of artificial islands that would allow them to project their own power without matching the US in terms of naval assets not to mention naval experience.
- chasil 5y agoThe question is why China feels the need to do this. The acknowledged superpowers are China, Russia, and the United States. The prior were in agony in World War II, and action by the latter was instrumental in their preservation. For this, I feel some measure of satisfaction with my country, for defending our true allies in that conflict. I remember massive armament and food shipments to Stalin, and U.S. bombers flying out of China. https://history.army.mil/brochures/72-38/72-38.HTM https://history.army.mil/brochures/72-38/72-38.HTM All three tacitly agree upon sovereignty and borders, with a few minor differences (we could mention Taiwan, the Crimea, and perhaps Cuba). Minus these, I believe that the three can and should enter agreements for the mutual defense of their borders, as we have done before in times of dire need, and may do again. None should tolerate the invasion of any. If this question were completely resolved, perhaps this particular "cross of iron" would not be necessary.
- chasil 5y agoThe best recipient of a belt and road objective might be Cuba. These people have long suffered, due to our political differences. SMIC in Cuba might offer tangible benefits to people who could greatly benefit from it. This would be an interesting move.
- magicalhippo 5y ago> The acknowledged superpowers are China, Russia, and the United States. Yet somehow China is also acknowledged as a developing country. Quite a feat IMHO.
- tyrfing 5y agoHere's the original FT article: https://www.ft.com/content/ba0a3cde-719b-4040-93cb-a486e1f843fb https://www.ft.com/content/ba0a3cde-719b-4040-93cb-a486e1f84... The surprise isn't the development of hypersonic tech, it's how this was done and the capabilities. The DF-17 mentioned in comments is a relatively well-known missile, with about 2,000 km of range, and delivers a hypersonic glide vehicle called DF-ZF. What happened here is a Long March orbital rocket put a DF-ZF or secret version into space, it orbited the globe, then essentially launched from space at a ground target.
- tablespoon 5y ago> What happened here is a Long March orbital rocket put a DF-ZF or secret version into space, it orbited the globe, then essentially launched from space at a ground target. That sounds like a Fractional Orbital Bombardment System: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_Orbital_Bombardment_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_Orbital_Bombardment...
- srslack 5y agoThe UCS (Union of Concerned Scientists) has an article stating that, essentially, this development is not that special and is probably just defense hawks (paraphrased) wanting to go off and spend billions more all over the place. https://blog.ucsusa.org/elliott-negin/calling-out-the-hype-over-hypersonic-weapons/ https://blog.ucsusa.org/elliott-negin/calling-out-the-hype-o... Also, an anecdote, there's been a lot of articles recommended to me over the past few days about both Russian and Chinese hypersonic missles, so I wouldn't doubt that this is literally a defense hawk doing some shady advertising, as others have mentioned.
- madengr 5y agoMeanwhile, the USA is fretting over personal pronouns.
- dirtyid 5y ago>The missile missed its target by about two-dozen miles Article itself rehash of FT article, pretty vague and clumbsy with technical details. Somewhat related from a couple days ago: >China military researchers pinpoint AI for hypersonic weapons accuracy [0] ... >PLA scientists say artificial intelligence could write flight algorithm within seconds and be 10 times more accurate ... >Their study showed an AI-based system could keep a hypersonic weapon on course with an accuracy of about 10 metres (32 feet). ... >The researchers said physical disturbances to the sensors were inevitable during their assembly, transport and routine maintenance. And each time the weapon is powered up, it affects the hardware, causing further deviations from the factory settings. ... >Using their method, the AI would start work immediately after launch, before the weapon reached hypervelocity, to calculate its position using the signal from the GPS or BeiDou – China’s navigational positioning system – and compare it with the results generated by the on-board sensors to evaluate the actual condition of the hardware. [0] https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3152179/china-military-researchers-pinpoint-ai-hypersonic-weapons https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3152179/chi... PRC building up nuclear capabilities because PRC minimum deterance posture is being unbalanced by US rolling out missile defense. Also ties back to Joint Chiefs of Staff Milley trying to calm PRC down over worries that Trump might start war from last month. Ergo all the new Chinese silo contruction and testing of fractional orbital bombardment. IMO the AI article on improving accuracy is also massive. Outlines a future where PRC has ICBMs with 10M accuracy (CEP?) and can do precision conventional strikes on US assets (think carriers in port).
- doe88 5y agoIs it publicly known if US is already working on this capability? Is it a kind of like the Boeing X37-B was able to launch a hypersonic missile with nuclear head?
- albertopv 5y agoChina is clearly setting up the path to Taiwan invasion, these weapons serving as a deterrent to USA.