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British Home secretaries have been proposing insane ideas for a decade. Patel alone proposed to: - build a wave machine to stop (drown?) immigrants coming fr

by mmarq 5y ago

British Home secretaries have been proposing insane ideas for a decade. Patel alone proposed to: - build a wave machine to stop (drown?) immigrants coming from France - build a floating wall in the Channel to stop immigrants from France - send asylum seekers to concentration camps in some remote islands in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean - send asylum seekers to concentration camps on abandoned oil rigs in the North Sea - reintroduce capital punishment (but she wasn't Home Secretary at the time) Before then somebody wanted to force people to buy a special ID card to watch porn (I'm not sure if the innovator in question was May, Rudd or Javid).

oliv__ 5y ago
It's scary to think that these people are even remotely close to any position of power over ordinary citizens.
rich_sasha 5y ago
Different league, but in the early days of Nuclear Red Button, UK Home Office was tasked with developing failsafe communication with Westminster when the PM is around the country. This was just after the US developed some kind of terrestrial radio system. The UK equivalent was entrusting all drivers with a box of coins so they can use the phone boxes. Should have hear run out, the PM could call the operator and request reverse charge connection (with UK strategic command or sth presumably). This was also deemed failsafe, as there are many phone boxes around the country. It was once described in length on QI...
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  > Should have hear run out, the PM could call the operator and request reverse charge connection (with UK strategic command or sth presumably). "Will you accept this collect call from: LAUNCH-THE-MISSILES-DO-IT-NOW?"
- andyjohnson0 5y ago
  > The UK equivalent was entrusting all drivers with a box of coins This was in the 1950s and is described in Peter Hennessey's excellent book The Human Button. It's been a while since I read the book, but from memory the cabinet office also purchased an AA membership so that the prime minister's driver would have a key giving them access to the private AA phone boxes that were fairly common back then. They had an arrangement with the AA call handlers to allow the PM to be connected to the appropriate part of government in an emergency. Meanwhile the US and Russian government probably had satellite...
  - gerdesj 5y ago
    "Meanwhile the US and Russian government probably had satellite..." Silly old Britain relying on a largely subterranean circuit switched network whilst the cool kids might use the latest cool gear to get an important message through. Even today, whilst Facebook danced the grim fandango for an eye watering six hours, boring old standard issue comms carried on functioning. It sounds a bit daft but there was a massive network of red boxes all over the country with decent connectivity back to a network of exchanges etc etc POTS n that. The AA (Automobile Association) had their own boxes too. To use this network you needed a few pence. To get the message through you use keywords and passwords ie a protocol. The failure modes for a satellite phone in those days doesn't bear thinking of. When the message is important, keep it as simple as possible but no more.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      > The failure modes for a satellite phone in those days doesn't bear thinking of. Hell, the same is true today. Any significant conflict between world powers may start with knocking out the satellites.
6510 5y ago
> for a decade The beard tax was cool, I also liked the sober pubs as described in the Licensing Act 1872 section 12: “Every person found drunk in any highway or other public place, whether a building or not, or on any licensed premises, shall be liable to a penalty”
- rich_sasha 5y ago
  In present-day Oxford the city centre by-laws ban “remaining in the public toilets without a valid excuse”. Some of my favourite legalese euphemisms.
- jjgreen 5y ago
  The current law in France states: Il est interdit de se trouver en état d’ivresse manifeste dans les lieux publics, it is forbidden to find oneself in state of manifest drunkenness in public places (CODE DE LA SANTÉ PUBLIQUE : ART. R. 3353-1). I love the idea of "finding oneself in a state of manifest drunkenness", how on Earth could that have happened?
  - mdp2021 5y ago
    The expression 'ivresse manifeste' is probably an odd euphemism for what in other legislations is more properly phrased as "bothersome drunkenness", to which "practical side" (bothersomeness) it adds a mandate for "decency", "to avoid being degrading" - which in French culture is probably felt more than other details and more than in other territories.
mercy_dude 5y ago
> concentration camps What is your source? I hardly believe she said that and still a home minister of a free and democratic society.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/sep/30/revealed-no-10-explores-sending-asylum-seekers-to-moldova-morocco-and-papua-new-guinea https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/sep/30/revealed-no-... > Downing Street has asked officials to consider the option of sending asylum seekers to Moldova, Morocco or Papua New Guinea and is the driving force behind proposals to hold refugees in offshore detention centres, according to documents seen by the Guardian. > The documents suggest officials in the Foreign Office have been pushing back against No 10’s proposals to process asylum applications in detention facilities overseas, which have also included the suggestion the centres could be constructed on the south Atlantic islands of Ascension and St Helena. I'm iffy on terming this "concentration camps". It fits the technical definition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Boer_War_concentration_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Boer_War_concentration_... as examples), but the line between "concentration" and "extermination" camps like Auschwitz has been entirely blurred for decades.
  - mercy_dude 5y ago
    > Downing Street has asked officials to consider the option of sending asylum seekers to Moldova, Morocco or Papua New Guinea and is the driving force behind proposals to hold refugees in offshore detention centres How is a detention Center the same as concentration camp? My take on these hot button issues such as immigration is media (right or left) always tries to make this a polarizing issue to play the narrative for the side they are in. I remember post 2016 during Trump presidency, detention camps for people from southern borders in US were a large issue even though they existed with the same level or lower humanitarian conditions for decades. media (on the left) would make huge deal when CBP would separate parents and hold people in detention camps even though same things happened in previous adminiStratton. This would lead media outlets calling Trump border enforcement secretary all sorts of names comparing him to Gestapo in some of those show congressional hearings. Now the exact same conditions exist, CBP has the exact same level of enforcement of border laws. But you don’t hear the same outlets coming out with their outrage machine. Except Fox and some other channels leaning right. Neither right or left has any intention to solve the immigration crisis(at least in the US). Both sides use this issue to rile up their base, that’s all.
bserge 5y ago
All of those sound stupid af, so how is she still in that position? Also, didn't they actually spend millions on the porn filter just to call it quits later? Surely schools could've used that money instead.
- pjc50 5y ago
  > All of those sound stupid af, so how is she still in that position? You will not understand British politics until you realise that she is in power because of, not despite, these stupid suggestions. They're what you have to say to get there. That's why Johnson performs the idiot act.
irrational 5y ago
American here - the older we get, the more we realize that we are just like our parents.

by mmarq 5y ago

oliv__ 5y ago

It's scary to think that these people are even remotely close to any position of power over ordinary citizens.

rich_sasha 5y ago

Different league, but in the early days of Nuclear Red Button, UK Home Office was tasked with developing failsafe communication with Westminster when the PM is around the country. This was just after the US developed some kind of terrestrial radio system. The UK equivalent was entrusting all drivers with a box of coins so they can use the phone boxes. Should have hear run out, the PM could call the operator and request reverse charge connection (with UK strategic command or sth presumably). This was also deemed failsafe, as there are many phone boxes around the country. It was once described in length on QI...

ceejayoz 5y ago
> Should have hear run out, the PM could call the operator and request reverse charge connection (with UK strategic command or sth presumably). "Will you accept this collect call from: LAUNCH-THE-MISSILES-DO-IT-NOW?"
andyjohnson0 5y ago
> The UK equivalent was entrusting all drivers with a box of coins This was in the 1950s and is described in Peter Hennessey's excellent book The Human Button. It's been a while since I read the book, but from memory the cabinet office also purchased an AA membership so that the prime minister's driver would have a key giving them access to the private AA phone boxes that were fairly common back then. They had an arrangement with the AA call handlers to allow the PM to be connected to the appropriate part of government in an emergency. Meanwhile the US and Russian government probably had satellite...
- gerdesj 5y ago
  "Meanwhile the US and Russian government probably had satellite..." Silly old Britain relying on a largely subterranean circuit switched network whilst the cool kids might use the latest cool gear to get an important message through. Even today, whilst Facebook danced the grim fandango for an eye watering six hours, boring old standard issue comms carried on functioning. It sounds a bit daft but there was a massive network of red boxes all over the country with decent connectivity back to a network of exchanges etc etc POTS n that. The AA (Automobile Association) had their own boxes too. To use this network you needed a few pence. To get the message through you use keywords and passwords ie a protocol. The failure modes for a satellite phone in those days doesn't bear thinking of. When the message is important, keep it as simple as possible but no more.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    > The failure modes for a satellite phone in those days doesn't bear thinking of. Hell, the same is true today. Any significant conflict between world powers may start with knocking out the satellites.

6510 5y ago

> for a decade The beard tax was cool, I also liked the sober pubs as described in the Licensing Act 1872 section 12: “Every person found drunk in any highway or other public place, whether a building or not, or on any licensed premises, shall be liable to a penalty”

rich_sasha 5y ago
In present-day Oxford the city centre by-laws ban “remaining in the public toilets without a valid excuse”. Some of my favourite legalese euphemisms.
jjgreen 5y ago
The current law in France states: Il est interdit de se trouver en état d’ivresse manifeste dans les lieux publics, it is forbidden to find oneself in state of manifest drunkenness in public places (CODE DE LA SANTÉ PUBLIQUE : ART. R. 3353-1). I love the idea of "finding oneself in a state of manifest drunkenness", how on Earth could that have happened?
- mdp2021 5y ago
  The expression 'ivresse manifeste' is probably an odd euphemism for what in other legislations is more properly phrased as "bothersome drunkenness", to which "practical side" (bothersomeness) it adds a mandate for "decency", "to avoid being degrading" - which in French culture is probably felt more than other details and more than in other territories.

mercy_dude 5y ago

> concentration camps What is your source? I hardly believe she said that and still a home minister of a free and democratic society.

ceejayoz 5y ago
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/sep/30/revealed-no-10-explores-sending-asylum-seekers-to-moldova-morocco-and-papua-new-guinea https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/sep/30/revealed-no-... > Downing Street has asked officials to consider the option of sending asylum seekers to Moldova, Morocco or Papua New Guinea and is the driving force behind proposals to hold refugees in offshore detention centres, according to documents seen by the Guardian. > The documents suggest officials in the Foreign Office have been pushing back against No 10’s proposals to process asylum applications in detention facilities overseas, which have also included the suggestion the centres could be constructed on the south Atlantic islands of Ascension and St Helena. I'm iffy on terming this "concentration camps". It fits the technical definition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Boer_War_concentration_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Boer_War_concentration_... as examples), but the line between "concentration" and "extermination" camps like Auschwitz has been entirely blurred for decades.
- mercy_dude 5y ago
  > Downing Street has asked officials to consider the option of sending asylum seekers to Moldova, Morocco or Papua New Guinea and is the driving force behind proposals to hold refugees in offshore detention centres How is a detention Center the same as concentration camp? My take on these hot button issues such as immigration is media (right or left) always tries to make this a polarizing issue to play the narrative for the side they are in. I remember post 2016 during Trump presidency, detention camps for people from southern borders in US were a large issue even though they existed with the same level or lower humanitarian conditions for decades. media (on the left) would make huge deal when CBP would separate parents and hold people in detention camps even though same things happened in previous adminiStratton. This would lead media outlets calling Trump border enforcement secretary all sorts of names comparing him to Gestapo in some of those show congressional hearings. Now the exact same conditions exist, CBP has the exact same level of enforcement of border laws. But you don’t hear the same outlets coming out with their outrage machine. Except Fox and some other channels leaning right. Neither right or left has any intention to solve the immigration crisis(at least in the US). Both sides use this issue to rile up their base, that’s all.

bserge 5y ago

All of those sound stupid af, so how is she still in that position? Also, didn't they actually spend millions on the porn filter just to call it quits later? Surely schools could've used that money instead.

pjc50 5y ago
> All of those sound stupid af, so how is she still in that position? You will not understand British politics until you realise that she is in power because of, not despite, these stupid suggestions. They're what you have to say to get there. That's why Johnson performs the idiot act.

irrational 5y ago

American here - the older we get, the more we realize that we are just like our parents.