6 ms·

Maybe comments like these are upvoted because it's fun to be contrarian, or maybe because a significant subset of HN audience consists of outliers like Robbe hi

by pen2l 5y ago

Maybe comments like these are upvoted because it's fun to be contrarian, or maybe because a significant subset of HN audience consists of outliers like Robbe himself and empathize with folks like him easily. But this does not even begin to make his behavior defensible or something to gloss over. He was a threat to society, and yet in your comment it's only his mother you reserve words of dislike for; a grieving mother no less, by her own admission technically inept, who probably tried her best. The ugly nihilism to which YUI and others adhered to is something we should look at to prevent future YUI's. Was it the violent video games that turned him this way? I don't know, but it's worth thinking about probably. Why did he refuse to participate in a social society? Maybe if he took the time to work out in a gym and keep on top of his game this all wouldn't have happened.

FDSGSG 5y ago
> maybe because a significant subset of HN audience consists of outliers like Robbe himself and empathize with folks like him easily. I am one of those people. I knew YUI as a kid, I logged into those KPN computers too. I'd always thought he'd moved on, I never found out about his death until now, or perhaps someone told me and I assumed they were kidding. Now, I can't help but wonder how many other friends who I thought to be retired are actually dead? Despite - or perhaps because of - my experiences I couldn't help but agree with you more. I found it deeply disturbing to see all the comments here berating his grieving family for wondering if they'd made a mistake letting him on the computer. I know my parents must have thought the same every time the cops came to our home, they would've been entirely justified in that. I turned out okay, but as far as I can tell most of us didn't.
wtallis 5y ago
> I don't know, but it's worth thinking about probably. No, it's not—at least not for more than a few moments. This is really obviously not a useful red flag to worry about. Violent video games are very widely popular, and have been for many years now. It's still quite rare for their users to turn into criminals. Highlighting things like playing violent video games is merely shining a spotlight on something we already know won't help anyone identify future criminals. That spotlight should instead be focused on traits and behaviors that aren't very common in the general population. A lot of the critics of the general category of violent video games are people who wish to censor them, without any real evidence that a social good would result. These parents—or at least the journalist reporting on them—have lumped themselves in with the would-be censors by presuming that the son's video game preferences were a warning sign they should have been paying attention to.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- jjeaff 5y ago
  I don't think it's necessarily predictive of anything, but I think it's clear that certain types of violent video games, especially first person shooter games , do serve to desensitize people to committing violence. In fact, the military found long ago that changes as small as using a human silhouette rather than a round target helped soldiers to hesitate less when they were confronted with having to shoot someone on the battlefield. Now, the military uses first person shooters for this same reason and I can't imagine that it isn't quite a bit more effective than a silhouette on a paper target.
  - wtallis 5y ago
    The problem with this kind of excuse is that "desensitize people to committing violence" has absolutely nothing to do with a kid becoming a criminal but non-violent hacker. If there is a good reason to be concerned about the prevalence of violent video games, it doesn't apply here. So I won't bother to debate whether there's any evidence to support your implicit suggestion that violent video games contribute to actual criminal violence.
  - strken 5y ago
    I've read very little actual evidence for any link between playing video games and violence. You can say that you think it desensitises players, but surely that should be measurable, right?
    - jjeaff 5y ago
      The Pentagon disagrees and has spent tens of millions on video games as well as other methods to desensitize soldiers to violence. https://www.sfgate.com/science/amp/THE-SCIENCE-OF-CREATING-KILLERS-Human-2514123.php https://www.sfgate.com/science/amp/THE-SCIENCE-OF-CREATING-K...
      - 5y ago
perihelions 5y ago
>"He was a threat to society" No. Society was a threat to this non-violent minor. Whatever "ugly nihilism" a teenager entertains is trivial next to the adult nihilism -- our nihilism -- that destroys empathy, that destroys human lives, discards them in cages. (By the way, the incomplete capacity to comprehend the negative consequences of actions isn't "nihilism" -- it is "innocence").
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  > No. Society was a threat to this non-violent minor. You can't go around breaking into other people's computers and causing them massive headaches. He had investigators flying all over the world and utility providers planning around the possibility of a state-sanctioned attack on the country's emergency response system. Many countries are horrendously punitive in general, and of course also over-criminalize and over-incarcerate computer-related mischief. Totally granted. But I just can't get my head around why folks think that's the case here. A bit of community service as punishment/recompense for breaking into ISPs and university computer systems seems... downright reasonable? > (By the way, the incomplete capacity to comprehend the negative consequences of actions isn't "nihilism" -- it is "innocence"). I think the word you're looking for is "ignorance". I'm disinclined to accept that being ignorant is a form of innocence. Ignorance doesn't lessen the load of one's criminal mischief on the rest of society.
  - perihelions 5y ago
    >"But a bit of community service as" The OP said 240 days in prison. (Easy to misread, as it was a "suspended" sentence... that ended up being served anyway).
    - throwawaygh 5y ago
      He was given the option to do community service and chose prison instead. He should've chosen the community service, and his choice of prison over community service should've triggered some sort of mental health review. But in any case the option was "contribute to society or go to jail" and he chose jail. I doubt that was the intention or expectation of the judge.
alpaca128 5y ago
> Was it the violent video games that turned him this way? No, it's usually the same reason that causes such people to do nothing but play video games in the first place. > Maybe if he took the time to work out in a gym and keep on top of his game this all wouldn't have happened I've been in a situation where playing games and neglecting everything else was kind of my thing. From that perspective this sentence sounds a bit like "just stop being sad". At some point going to the gym is simply not possible, as easy as it may sound. Games are a highly effective distraction from life and everything that comes with it. At least until the day that stops working, at which point it is a good idea to be near people that care and aren't blind to a red flag parade.

by pen2l 5y ago

FDSGSG 5y ago

> maybe because a significant subset of HN audience consists of outliers like Robbe himself and empathize with folks like him easily. I am one of those people. I knew YUI as a kid, I logged into those KPN computers too. I'd always thought he'd moved on, I never found out about his death until now, or perhaps someone told me and I assumed they were kidding. Now, I can't help but wonder how many other friends who I thought to be retired are actually dead? Despite - or perhaps because of - my experiences I couldn't help but agree with you more. I found it deeply disturbing to see all the comments here berating his grieving family for wondering if they'd made a mistake letting him on the computer. I know my parents must have thought the same every time the cops came to our home, they would've been entirely justified in that. I turned out okay, but as far as I can tell most of us didn't.

wtallis 5y ago

> I don't know, but it's worth thinking about probably. No, it's not—at least not for more than a few moments. This is really obviously not a useful red flag to worry about. Violent video games are very widely popular, and have been for many years now. It's still quite rare for their users to turn into criminals. Highlighting things like playing violent video games is merely shining a spotlight on something we already know won't help anyone identify future criminals. That spotlight should instead be focused on traits and behaviors that aren't very common in the general population. A lot of the critics of the general category of violent video games are people who wish to censor them, without any real evidence that a social good would result. These parents—or at least the journalist reporting on them—have lumped themselves in with the would-be censors by presuming that the son's video game preferences were a warning sign they should have been paying attention to.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jjeaff 5y ago
I don't think it's necessarily predictive of anything, but I think it's clear that certain types of violent video games, especially first person shooter games , do serve to desensitize people to committing violence. In fact, the military found long ago that changes as small as using a human silhouette rather than a round target helped soldiers to hesitate less when they were confronted with having to shoot someone on the battlefield. Now, the military uses first person shooters for this same reason and I can't imagine that it isn't quite a bit more effective than a silhouette on a paper target.
- wtallis 5y ago
  The problem with this kind of excuse is that "desensitize people to committing violence" has absolutely nothing to do with a kid becoming a criminal but non-violent hacker. If there is a good reason to be concerned about the prevalence of violent video games, it doesn't apply here. So I won't bother to debate whether there's any evidence to support your implicit suggestion that violent video games contribute to actual criminal violence.
- strken 5y ago
  I've read very little actual evidence for any link between playing video games and violence. You can say that you think it desensitises players, but surely that should be measurable, right?
  - jjeaff 5y ago
    The Pentagon disagrees and has spent tens of millions on video games as well as other methods to desensitize soldiers to violence. https://www.sfgate.com/science/amp/THE-SCIENCE-OF-CREATING-KILLERS-Human-2514123.php https://www.sfgate.com/science/amp/THE-SCIENCE-OF-CREATING-K...
    - 5y ago

perihelions 5y ago

>"He was a threat to society" No. Society was a threat to this non-violent minor. Whatever "ugly nihilism" a teenager entertains is trivial next to the adult nihilism -- our nihilism -- that destroys empathy, that destroys human lives, discards them in cages. (By the way, the incomplete capacity to comprehend the negative consequences of actions isn't "nihilism" -- it is "innocence").

throwawaygh 5y ago
> No. Society was a threat to this non-violent minor. You can't go around breaking into other people's computers and causing them massive headaches. He had investigators flying all over the world and utility providers planning around the possibility of a state-sanctioned attack on the country's emergency response system. Many countries are horrendously punitive in general, and of course also over-criminalize and over-incarcerate computer-related mischief. Totally granted. But I just can't get my head around why folks think that's the case here. A bit of community service as punishment/recompense for breaking into ISPs and university computer systems seems... downright reasonable? > (By the way, the incomplete capacity to comprehend the negative consequences of actions isn't "nihilism" -- it is "innocence"). I think the word you're looking for is "ignorance". I'm disinclined to accept that being ignorant is a form of innocence. Ignorance doesn't lessen the load of one's criminal mischief on the rest of society.
- perihelions 5y ago
  >"But a bit of community service as" The OP said 240 days in prison. (Easy to misread, as it was a "suspended" sentence... that ended up being served anyway).
  - throwawaygh 5y ago
    He was given the option to do community service and chose prison instead. He should've chosen the community service, and his choice of prison over community service should've triggered some sort of mental health review. But in any case the option was "contribute to society or go to jail" and he chose jail. I doubt that was the intention or expectation of the judge.

alpaca128 5y ago

> Was it the violent video games that turned him this way? No, it's usually the same reason that causes such people to do nothing but play video games in the first place. > Maybe if he took the time to work out in a gym and keep on top of his game this all wouldn't have happened I've been in a situation where playing games and neglecting everything else was kind of my thing. From that perspective this sentence sounds a bit like "just stop being sad". At some point going to the gym is simply not possible, as easy as it may sound. Games are a highly effective distraction from life and everything that comes with it. At least until the day that stops working, at which point it is a good idea to be near people that care and aren't blind to a red flag parade.