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> > His parents let him buy a PC that he put together himself. It had a big memory card and a lot of processing power. He set it up in his bedroom. Looking back

by JadeNB 5y ago

> > His parents let him buy a PC that he put together himself. It had a big memory card and a lot of processing power. He set it up in his bedroom. Looking back, José thinks “that may have been our biggest mistake”. > I don’t think I like these people. Since I read your comment before I RTFA, it wasn't immediately clear to me what was so awful about this. Just to be explicit, José is the mother of the teenage hacker in question, saying it was a mistake to get her son a computer. (I would think the remark considerably less reprehensible if it came from the hacker himself.)

syshum 5y ago
Given the audience here I would image the majority of the people on this site had computers supplied by our parents at a young age, and we often played violent video games, or spent hours talking to people online yet we did not become criminals Scape goating video games, or "the internet" for these types of things is a long disproven trope. There are more factors in criminality that just playing a violent game or having computer supplied to you by your parents. Putting the blame on these things however is easier that looking at other more human causes.
- JadeNB 5y ago
  Just to be clear, I am not arguing that having a computer plays any role in criminality—except possibly that it gives mischievous and easily bored youngsters a healthy outlet for their curiosity and restlessness, which presumably militates against criminality. I was agreeing with teddyh (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28898239 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28898239) and I agree with you. I just meant to clarify (for the benefit of those who, like me, read the comments before the article) that José is the hacker's mother, not the hacker, which puts a different, and much darker, spin on the statement that José thinks that the hacker's getting a computer young was a bad thing.
  - erikerikson 5y ago
    You can fault the mother for thinking maybe if she never gave her son a computer a different outcome may have occurred? I see nothing of the generalization you accuse the mother of making, only a mother asking what wouldn't have allowed the eventual outcome she observed and we've now read about. Consider that the mother might simply be saying, "I wish reality had gone differently" but adding outcome specific details to say so. Of all the events in the casual chain, the alteration of many of them could have led to a better or worse outcome but the gift of the computer seems salient. I imagine most parents with children that die in car accidents question the gifting of a car. Doesn't mean they think cars are to blame, just fruitless, useless wishing that things had gone better.
    - wtallis 5y ago
      The parents think giving the kid a computer may have been their biggest mistake. That's not just a matter of them imagining things might have gone differently; they're saying the computer itself was one of the most significant causes of harm. It's like they're deliberately avoiding thinking about the real causes—the factors that led to their son experiencing a different and much worse outcome than the vast majority of people who spend "too much" time on computers as they're growing up.
      - erikerikson 5y ago
        > It's like they're deliberately avoiding thinking about the real causes I can see how you might get to that supposition. I guess I'm feeling a little more charitable. I expect they're likely muddling along in life like most of humanity trying to do it's best with only the most vague ideas of what it means to do that well.
watwut 5y ago
I don't understand what is so reprehensible about it. Consequently he isolated himself and went into spiral and then everything went to hell. It is quite possible that had he not he'd his drug of choice in room, things were different. It is exactly the same thing if parents support soccer club and then the kid ends up spiraling with troublemakers. In retrospect the soccer was a mistake for this kid. Just because we like computers and they did good to us does not mean having 100% access to one for him was right decision. In fact, it did caused massive issues. The kid who leaves his room for socialization only is an issue. The kid who spends too much of his time playing video games is an issue. Some amount of playing is fine. Some amount of being alone is perfectly fine. The "out of room only for food and never going outside" is not fine. If there is anything that harms young men, it that the above is normalized instead of being seen as sign the kid is loosing ability to cope with both real life and computer. And then, when they are alone, depressed or bursting angry, everything and everyone is blamed. Parents should be even more understanding, the girls should have go out of their way to meet guys in their rooms, the teachers are horrible for not tolerating them mistreating other kids and so on and so forth. Except that saying that having kids socialization primary online, purely in gaming and hacking communities is a bad idea, because those can be quite atrocious.
- wtallis 5y ago
  > In retrospect the soccer was a mistake for this kid. Do you not see how the absurdity of this sentence exposes the fallacy in the preceding paragraph? Neither soccer nor computers are at all plausible causes of these serious mental health problems. That's just a simple post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy. At most, they could merely be the context in which other issues developed into a serious problem.
  - watwut 5y ago
    > Neither soccer nor computers are at all plausible causes of these serious mental health problems. In some soccer clubs and in some computer subcultures, large issue is peer influence. The values and behavior you learn are causing problems. And yes, removing the child from the peers influence oftentimes in fact makes the child improve a lot. In this case also, the excessive gaming is contributing to mental health problems. It feels good temporarily or while playing, but does not cure the problem. Instead, it makes it worst due to isolation.

by JadeNB 5y ago

syshum 5y ago

Given the audience here I would image the majority of the people on this site had computers supplied by our parents at a young age, and we often played violent video games, or spent hours talking to people online yet we did not become criminals Scape goating video games, or "the internet" for these types of things is a long disproven trope. There are more factors in criminality that just playing a violent game or having computer supplied to you by your parents. Putting the blame on these things however is easier that looking at other more human causes.

JadeNB 5y ago
Just to be clear, I am not arguing that having a computer plays any role in criminality—except possibly that it gives mischievous and easily bored youngsters a healthy outlet for their curiosity and restlessness, which presumably militates against criminality. I was agreeing with teddyh (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28898239 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28898239) and I agree with you. I just meant to clarify (for the benefit of those who, like me, read the comments before the article) that José is the hacker's mother, not the hacker, which puts a different, and much darker, spin on the statement that José thinks that the hacker's getting a computer young was a bad thing.
- erikerikson 5y ago
  You can fault the mother for thinking maybe if she never gave her son a computer a different outcome may have occurred? I see nothing of the generalization you accuse the mother of making, only a mother asking what wouldn't have allowed the eventual outcome she observed and we've now read about. Consider that the mother might simply be saying, "I wish reality had gone differently" but adding outcome specific details to say so. Of all the events in the casual chain, the alteration of many of them could have led to a better or worse outcome but the gift of the computer seems salient. I imagine most parents with children that die in car accidents question the gifting of a car. Doesn't mean they think cars are to blame, just fruitless, useless wishing that things had gone better.
  - wtallis 5y ago
    The parents think giving the kid a computer may have been their biggest mistake. That's not just a matter of them imagining things might have gone differently; they're saying the computer itself was one of the most significant causes of harm. It's like they're deliberately avoiding thinking about the real causes—the factors that led to their son experiencing a different and much worse outcome than the vast majority of people who spend "too much" time on computers as they're growing up.
    - erikerikson 5y ago
      > It's like they're deliberately avoiding thinking about the real causes I can see how you might get to that supposition. I guess I'm feeling a little more charitable. I expect they're likely muddling along in life like most of humanity trying to do it's best with only the most vague ideas of what it means to do that well.

watwut 5y ago

I don't understand what is so reprehensible about it. Consequently he isolated himself and went into spiral and then everything went to hell. It is quite possible that had he not he'd his drug of choice in room, things were different. It is exactly the same thing if parents support soccer club and then the kid ends up spiraling with troublemakers. In retrospect the soccer was a mistake for this kid. Just because we like computers and they did good to us does not mean having 100% access to one for him was right decision. In fact, it did caused massive issues. The kid who leaves his room for socialization only is an issue. The kid who spends too much of his time playing video games is an issue. Some amount of playing is fine. Some amount of being alone is perfectly fine. The "out of room only for food and never going outside" is not fine. If there is anything that harms young men, it that the above is normalized instead of being seen as sign the kid is loosing ability to cope with both real life and computer. And then, when they are alone, depressed or bursting angry, everything and everyone is blamed. Parents should be even more understanding, the girls should have go out of their way to meet guys in their rooms, the teachers are horrible for not tolerating them mistreating other kids and so on and so forth. Except that saying that having kids socialization primary online, purely in gaming and hacking communities is a bad idea, because those can be quite atrocious.

wtallis 5y ago
> In retrospect the soccer was a mistake for this kid. Do you not see how the absurdity of this sentence exposes the fallacy in the preceding paragraph? Neither soccer nor computers are at all plausible causes of these serious mental health problems. That's just a simple post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy. At most, they could merely be the context in which other issues developed into a serious problem.
- watwut 5y ago
  > Neither soccer nor computers are at all plausible causes of these serious mental health problems. In some soccer clubs and in some computer subcultures, large issue is peer influence. The values and behavior you learn are causing problems. And yes, removing the child from the peers influence oftentimes in fact makes the child improve a lot. In this case also, the excessive gaming is contributing to mental health problems. It feels good temporarily or while playing, but does not cure the problem. Instead, it makes it worst due to isolation.