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Funny how people who think the earth overpopulated always think is other people who are overpopulating it, and not themselves. Wealth can be created. There's n

Funny how people who think the earth overpopulated always think is other people who are overpopulating it, and not themselves. Wealth can be created. There's no limit to how much wealth can be created. Focusing on deleting the population is immoral.

rahen 5y ago
Nobody asked to delete population. The challenge is to allow people to access familial planning, make contraception and abortions more widespread in developing countries, and stop or at least reduce pro-natal fiscal policies in the West. Besides, morality is highly subjective.
dredmorbius 5y ago
There's no limit to how much wealth can be created. Citation requested. That, and other statements of your comment, are articles of ideology and belief, not scientific statements. You're attempting to moralise what is a factual matter. That is as effective as a moral theory of disease, which is to say, not at all.
- csisnett 5y ago
  Tell me what the limiting factor in creating wealth is then? I said it is immoral and that we have moral options that work. Or you think wealth can not be created?
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    I'd requested a citation. Apparently you have none, as I suspected. Ironic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639553 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639553
rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
Ask the pro-depopulation who should not be allowed to have X+ children. I not those people, how many they maybe, pollute less all together than those blaming population growth. The issue is not with the population but the few who ruin everything for everyone.
jedimastert 5y ago
> Funny how people who think the earth overpopulated always think is other people who are overpopulating it, and not themselves. I would assume that most of these kinds of folks would be childless?
tzamora 5y ago
Why is inmoral? It's just population orderly control, and it will at some point just get constant so wealth will be limited to that constant and it will not grow anymore, economy doesn't need to grow to improve human welfare. It's completely sane to think and discuss how we can in someway "delete" population.
- csisnett 5y ago
  What is that constant that you talk about? It is immoral to think the world would be better with fewer people because what you're really saying is, 3 Billion people or whatever number shouldn't exist. If you think not existing is a good thing then we wouldn't be having this conversation would we?
  - tzamora 5y ago
    I don't think anyone is saying those 3 billion people doesn't need to exists, no one. It's just give education teach people to have healthy families, the constant is a balance of population given by health, nature and economics.
    - csisnett 5y ago
      If you're saying the world is overpopulated by X then you're saying X amount of people who exist shouldn't exist. No matter how you paint it, you think it is a good thing for you to exist but not others. "Balance of health, nature and economics" nice words for basically "I want fewer poor people in the world so let's help them sterilize themselves" instead of creating wealth which isn't inherently immoral and would actually have a positive impact if done rightly
      - Beldin 5y ago
        There are too many people on the planet as it is. Earth Overshoot Day, the day by which we've collectively used up whatever the Earth can generate in a year, is moving earlier in the year. In 2021, it was July 29th. From there on out, we're depleting the Earth's reserves - some of which can never come back. This is, in my view, immoral. That's how I view things without giving back. Your comments seem to try to twist the arguments into some sort of Thanos-snap, as if certain currently living people do not have a right to live. That is a strawman, no one is arguing that.
formerly_proven 5y ago
> Wealth can be created. There's no limit to how much wealth can be created. Traditionally wealth means stuff or ability to acquire stuff, which inherently consumes resources. I'm assuming you are referring to a reinterpretation of the term "wealth" to mean "a number in a computer system"?
- csisnett 5y ago
  Wealth is things that people value. Wealth creation is finished when individuals freely, and willingly exchange what they currently have (money) for valuables and continue to do that happily. That can be software so yes, given that software can be created without limits and that software wealth creation is a subset of total wealth creation that alone is proof that wealth creation is unlimited. However if you think material resources is the limiting factor then you're going to have to explain exactly what is going to stop scientists from developing new materials that can be used in new products or in existing products.
  - Beldin 5y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Overshoot_Day https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Overshoot_Day

rahen 5y ago

Nobody asked to delete population. The challenge is to allow people to access familial planning, make contraception and abortions more widespread in developing countries, and stop or at least reduce pro-natal fiscal policies in the West. Besides, morality is highly subjective.

dredmorbius 5y ago

There's no limit to how much wealth can be created. Citation requested. That, and other statements of your comment, are articles of ideology and belief, not scientific statements. You're attempting to moralise what is a factual matter. That is as effective as a moral theory of disease, which is to say, not at all.

csisnett 5y ago
Tell me what the limiting factor in creating wealth is then? I said it is immoral and that we have moral options that work. Or you think wealth can not be created?
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  I'd requested a citation. Apparently you have none, as I suspected. Ironic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639553 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639553

rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago

Ask the pro-depopulation who should not be allowed to have X+ children. I not those people, how many they maybe, pollute less all together than those blaming population growth. The issue is not with the population but the few who ruin everything for everyone.

jedimastert 5y ago

> Funny how people who think the earth overpopulated always think is other people who are overpopulating it, and not themselves. I would assume that most of these kinds of folks would be childless?

tzamora 5y ago

Why is inmoral? It's just population orderly control, and it will at some point just get constant so wealth will be limited to that constant and it will not grow anymore, economy doesn't need to grow to improve human welfare. It's completely sane to think and discuss how we can in someway "delete" population.

csisnett 5y ago
What is that constant that you talk about? It is immoral to think the world would be better with fewer people because what you're really saying is, 3 Billion people or whatever number shouldn't exist. If you think not existing is a good thing then we wouldn't be having this conversation would we?
- tzamora 5y ago
  I don't think anyone is saying those 3 billion people doesn't need to exists, no one. It's just give education teach people to have healthy families, the constant is a balance of population given by health, nature and economics.
  - csisnett 5y ago
    If you're saying the world is overpopulated by X then you're saying X amount of people who exist shouldn't exist. No matter how you paint it, you think it is a good thing for you to exist but not others. "Balance of health, nature and economics" nice words for basically "I want fewer poor people in the world so let's help them sterilize themselves" instead of creating wealth which isn't inherently immoral and would actually have a positive impact if done rightly
    - Beldin 5y ago
      There are too many people on the planet as it is. Earth Overshoot Day, the day by which we've collectively used up whatever the Earth can generate in a year, is moving earlier in the year. In 2021, it was July 29th. From there on out, we're depleting the Earth's reserves - some of which can never come back. This is, in my view, immoral. That's how I view things without giving back. Your comments seem to try to twist the arguments into some sort of Thanos-snap, as if certain currently living people do not have a right to live. That is a strawman, no one is arguing that.

formerly_proven 5y ago

> Wealth can be created. There's no limit to how much wealth can be created. Traditionally wealth means stuff or ability to acquire stuff, which inherently consumes resources. I'm assuming you are referring to a reinterpretation of the term "wealth" to mean "a number in a computer system"?

csisnett 5y ago
Wealth is things that people value. Wealth creation is finished when individuals freely, and willingly exchange what they currently have (money) for valuables and continue to do that happily. That can be software so yes, given that software can be created without limits and that software wealth creation is a subset of total wealth creation that alone is proof that wealth creation is unlimited. However if you think material resources is the limiting factor then you're going to have to explain exactly what is going to stop scientists from developing new materials that can be used in new products or in existing products.
- Beldin 5y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Overshoot_Day https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Overshoot_Day