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I wonder how these grid interconnections would be at least partly secured against attack, by a nation-state and/or by terrorists — it seems like increased vulne

I wonder how these grid interconnections would be at least partly secured against attack, by a nation-state and/or by terrorists — it seems like increased vulnerability should be a concern.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
maxerickson 5y ago
What's particularly different about these compared to the thousands of miles of existing power and pipeline infrastructure?
- dctoedt 5y ago
  > What's particularly different about these compared to the thousands of miles of existing power and pipeline infrastructure? Don't know; it just seems as though the greater the interdependency between geographically-separated modules in a system, the greater the chances that damage to one module can take down remote modules and perhaps even the entire system. Example: Oceangoing vessels are generally designed with watertight compartments, so that damage and flooding in one compartment won't necessarily doom the whole ship — as happened to the Titanic, which sank in part because its transverse internal bulkheads didn't extend high enough to prevent seawater spillover from the iceberg-damaged sections to undamaged sections as the ship started to sink by the bow.[0] Example: The Great Texas Blackout in February 2021 resulted in part from electrical power being knocked offline for some natural-gas compression facilities, which resulted in still-other electrical-generation facilities, powered by natural gas, failing for lack of fuel. [1] [0] http://writing.engr.psu.edu/uer/bassett.html#:~:text=The%20rapid%20sinking%20of%20the%20Titanic%20was%20worsened%20by%20the,spill%20over%20into%20adjacent%20compartments http://writing.engr.psu.edu/uer/bassett.html#:~:text=The%20r.... [1] https://www.wikiwand.com/en/2021_Texas_power_crisis#/Causes https://www.wikiwand.com/en/2021_Texas_power_crisis#/Causes
  - maxerickson 5y ago
    Texas also had the problem that the grid was isolated. Energy consumption spiked in neighboring states as well, with some problems, but nothing as severe as Texas. https://www.oklahoman.com/story/business/columns/steve-lackmeyer/2021/02/19/oklahoma-power-grid-escaping-crisis-hitting-texas/331388007/ https://www.oklahoman.com/story/business/columns/steve-lackm... I suppose there can be a difference between interconnection and interdependence. Unnecessary interdependence creates the possibility of failure cascades, but interconnections can provide resilience without necessarily increasing the likelihood of problems.
elihu 5y ago
I think the national security aspect can be mitigated by keeping many of the existing fossil fuel plants operational as an emergency backup, but not running them in normal circumstances.

I wonder how these grid interconnections would be at least partly secured against attack, by a nation-state and/or by terrorists — it seems like increased vulnerability should be a concern.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

maxerickson 5y ago

What's particularly different about these compared to the thousands of miles of existing power and pipeline infrastructure?

dctoedt 5y ago
> What's particularly different about these compared to the thousands of miles of existing power and pipeline infrastructure? Don't know; it just seems as though the greater the interdependency between geographically-separated modules in a system, the greater the chances that damage to one module can take down remote modules and perhaps even the entire system. Example: Oceangoing vessels are generally designed with watertight compartments, so that damage and flooding in one compartment won't necessarily doom the whole ship — as happened to the Titanic, which sank in part because its transverse internal bulkheads didn't extend high enough to prevent seawater spillover from the iceberg-damaged sections to undamaged sections as the ship started to sink by the bow.[0] Example: The Great Texas Blackout in February 2021 resulted in part from electrical power being knocked offline for some natural-gas compression facilities, which resulted in still-other electrical-generation facilities, powered by natural gas, failing for lack of fuel. [1] [0] http://writing.engr.psu.edu/uer/bassett.html#:~:text=The%20rapid%20sinking%20of%20the%20Titanic%20was%20worsened%20by%20the,spill%20over%20into%20adjacent%20compartments http://writing.engr.psu.edu/uer/bassett.html#:~:text=The%20r.... [1] https://www.wikiwand.com/en/2021_Texas_power_crisis#/Causes https://www.wikiwand.com/en/2021_Texas_power_crisis#/Causes
- maxerickson 5y ago
  Texas also had the problem that the grid was isolated. Energy consumption spiked in neighboring states as well, with some problems, but nothing as severe as Texas. https://www.oklahoman.com/story/business/columns/steve-lackmeyer/2021/02/19/oklahoma-power-grid-escaping-crisis-hitting-texas/331388007/ https://www.oklahoman.com/story/business/columns/steve-lackm... I suppose there can be a difference between interconnection and interdependence. Unnecessary interdependence creates the possibility of failure cascades, but interconnections can provide resilience without necessarily increasing the likelihood of problems.

elihu 5y ago

I think the national security aspect can be mitigated by keeping many of the existing fossil fuel plants operational as an emergency backup, but not running them in normal circumstances.