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Hardware quirk preservation have always been a MAJOR focus of emulators since they existed. Almost every console emulator has been iterated on by millions of pe

Hardware quirk preservation have always been a MAJOR focus of emulators since they existed. Almost every console emulator has been iterated on by millions of people to produce emulation as accurately as possible. The FPGA part is a really weird focus to me. From what I understand their emulation systems don't run as many games glitch free, as they don't have the same man power to recreate all of that in FPGA. You can't copy out raw game consoles schematics into into it, you need to have an FPGA programmer re-make it and make sure every rom runs against it. If anything, this shoots their "scholarly" claim in the foot from the start. Rendering mode shaders usually require a bit of setup, but it's also been around for years. I think around 2005 is the first I heard of a good CRT shader that imitated pixel shapes, color signal blur, monitor curvature, etc. I guess my main argument is, I could make a RetroPi in a few hours with every emulator, and every rom, and meet all of the marketing criteria with better settings. Including better compatibility. Assuming they're trying to advertise to my market, why would I pay 50x the cost for an inferior product? Why wouldn't they start from where emulation enthusiasts currently are instead of way behind?

nsxwolf 5y ago
Your solution wouldn’t play real cartridges and cards for SG-1000, Mark III, Master System, Genesis and Game Gear without a lot of work, and it wouldn’t look good on my shelf either.
- spicybright 5y ago
  Let's see their claim again. > Designed to be the definitive, scholarly operating system for playing and experiencing the entire medium. I don't think they're being truthful here if this is really the case. A definitive system wouldn't be a black box with little way to fix or upgrade it once the company goes away. It should be a practical device with lots of cheap, interchangeable ports (that are dumb plugs or simple boards) you rip roms with (for preservation) and attach controllers to. Then you can load your roms onto a more stylish/temporary device for the shelf. I also think it's silly saying "the entire medium" before that's actually true. I really doubt they'll get around to writing FPGA designs for every system. Is there even external monitor and controller port support? Am I only limited to the entire medium of handheld/snes controller type games? Unless I'm mis-understanding, this just seems like another emulation handheld in an already flooded market, marketing itself the idea it's for "history". Even though it does the same thing as any other handheld. EDIT: Also to add, while it's great to have cart support, you can easily just get a rom ripper and do that. Consoles like the Retron exists with multiple cartridge ports, and all it does is rip the rom like any device, then emulates it.
  - nsxwolf 5y ago
    Yeah, I don't understand this marketing at all. "Scholarly"-what? It's a... nicer front end for their products? The appeal of the product for me that it's an extremely well made, nice looking Genesis with HDMI and retains peripheral compatibility. It is in my mind an unofficial "Model 4 Genesis". I don't mind that it isn't a MiSTer and that I can't modify it further - to me I suppose it's like a fancy new record player. I like to physically take carts down off my shelf, look at the labels, plug them in and play them. There's a lot of stuff out there that's just absolute junk in comparison, like the Retron you mentioned. Cheap plastic, tight cartridge ports that feel like they're causing damage, dodgy emulation. I may build something like a MiSTer eventually but it will serve a different purpose.
    - spicybright 5y ago
      Fully agree with you! I only mentioned the retron because it's in a similar category. But it's seriously terrible, having used one. The only good portable emulators imo have really been other devices but repurposed. Like a tablet/phone + bluetooth controller, or something like an NVidia Shield. Every other piece of plastic junk... well yeah, they work, but their emulators are generally jank with emulation glitches. And you generally can't update them like internet connected devices. So if you ignore the marketing (and the lack of 6 face buttons for genesis games ;) ) this would be really nice device for that. And I agree with the carts. Maybe it's nostalgia, or a yearning for a physical medium, but there's nothing like a shelf of media imo. I used to be very into cassettes, splicing together mixtapes from other tapes, radio, computer, etc. in 2017. It's very pleasant putting a tape in the deck for work music. If they can get their marketing straightened out, and the FPGA method gets a lot of mileage, I can see this being a really nice device.
jogu 5y ago
> I guess my main argument is, I could make a RetroPi in a few hours with every emulator, and every rom, and meet all of the marketing criteria with better settings. Including better compatibility. > Assuming they're trying to advertise to my market, why would I pay 50x the cost for an inferior product? Why wouldn't they start from where emulation enthusiasts currently are instead of way behind? If you're happy with RetroPi then Analogue's products simply aren't for you. Being able to use my original controllers, accessories, cartridges directly (not just dumping the rom) is important to me. Having a big Street Fighter II cartridge sticking out, two controllers right there, and simply pushing the power button to immediately get into that game is important to me. It strikes up conversations and leads to impromptu gameplay in a way that a RetroPi or something similar likely doesn't.
- spicybright 5y ago
  For me and my friends, "let's play contra" doesn't take longer than maybe 10 seconds from intention to the start screen. I have a retro pi that lives always connected to my tv for impromptu play like you describe. The Analogue OS doesn't say if it supports TV output or controllers besides > OS is designed to connect seamlessly to virtually every 8BitDo Bluetooth, 2.4g and next gen controller. Wired and wireless. With button mapping on a controller by controller, system by system basis. I attached two cheap USB NES adapters to it, allowing NES controllers of all kinds to be plugged in. It works perfect for contra, battle toads, tetris, whatever, and feels extrememly close to native form my experience (which is impressive to me, as I used to play competitive NES tetris, which requires 1 or 2 frame input windows for some techniques) EDIT: And TBH if that format is best for you, why not just spend your money on a real console instead? It'll definitely be cheaper and will ALWAYS boot faster than anything else you can buy.
  - jogu 5y ago
    > For me and my friends, "let's play contra" doesn't take longer than maybe 10 seconds from intention to the start screen. But how would they know you have Contra and think to play it? The presence of a physical cartridge or recognizable console sparks the spontaneity. I think Analogue's consoles do this in a way that RetroPi does not. > The Analogue OS doesn't say if it supports TV output or controllers To be clear, I'm not talking exclusively about Analogue OS or the Analogue Pocket, but their other existing products the Mega Sg and Super Nt. > And TBH if that format is best for you, why not just spend your money on a real console instead? It'll definitely be cheaper and will ALWAYS boot faster than anything else you can buy. Unfortunately this isn't the case. Especially given the recent retro gaming boom inflating prices. You also have to consider that retro consoles are borderline unusable on modern TVs (even if they have composite input) and you'll need to purchase a quality upscaler (or hardware mod), which can run anywhere from $80 to $500 depending on what you get. If you don't mind having a CRT you can go that route too, but nice CRTs are also quite expensive. Then if you're interested in playing ROMs that's unlockable via a jailbreak on the Super Nt vs paying $80 - $200 for a flash cartridge. So here's what I want: 1) Play on a modern TV via HDMI 2) Play original cartridges directly 3) Native support for original controller hardware 4) Support for additional accessories that worked on original hardware 5) The option to play ROMs if a particular game is inaccessible physically The Super Nt/Mega Sg provide all of these things at a much cheaper price than trying to get the equivalent on original hardware.

nsxwolf 5y ago

Your solution wouldn’t play real cartridges and cards for SG-1000, Mark III, Master System, Genesis and Game Gear without a lot of work, and it wouldn’t look good on my shelf either.

spicybright 5y ago
Let's see their claim again. > Designed to be the definitive, scholarly operating system for playing and experiencing the entire medium. I don't think they're being truthful here if this is really the case. A definitive system wouldn't be a black box with little way to fix or upgrade it once the company goes away. It should be a practical device with lots of cheap, interchangeable ports (that are dumb plugs or simple boards) you rip roms with (for preservation) and attach controllers to. Then you can load your roms onto a more stylish/temporary device for the shelf. I also think it's silly saying "the entire medium" before that's actually true. I really doubt they'll get around to writing FPGA designs for every system. Is there even external monitor and controller port support? Am I only limited to the entire medium of handheld/snes controller type games? Unless I'm mis-understanding, this just seems like another emulation handheld in an already flooded market, marketing itself the idea it's for "history". Even though it does the same thing as any other handheld. EDIT: Also to add, while it's great to have cart support, you can easily just get a rom ripper and do that. Consoles like the Retron exists with multiple cartridge ports, and all it does is rip the rom like any device, then emulates it.
- nsxwolf 5y ago
  Yeah, I don't understand this marketing at all. "Scholarly"-what? It's a... nicer front end for their products? The appeal of the product for me that it's an extremely well made, nice looking Genesis with HDMI and retains peripheral compatibility. It is in my mind an unofficial "Model 4 Genesis". I don't mind that it isn't a MiSTer and that I can't modify it further - to me I suppose it's like a fancy new record player. I like to physically take carts down off my shelf, look at the labels, plug them in and play them. There's a lot of stuff out there that's just absolute junk in comparison, like the Retron you mentioned. Cheap plastic, tight cartridge ports that feel like they're causing damage, dodgy emulation. I may build something like a MiSTer eventually but it will serve a different purpose.
  - spicybright 5y ago
    Fully agree with you! I only mentioned the retron because it's in a similar category. But it's seriously terrible, having used one. The only good portable emulators imo have really been other devices but repurposed. Like a tablet/phone + bluetooth controller, or something like an NVidia Shield. Every other piece of plastic junk... well yeah, they work, but their emulators are generally jank with emulation glitches. And you generally can't update them like internet connected devices. So if you ignore the marketing (and the lack of 6 face buttons for genesis games ;) ) this would be really nice device for that. And I agree with the carts. Maybe it's nostalgia, or a yearning for a physical medium, but there's nothing like a shelf of media imo. I used to be very into cassettes, splicing together mixtapes from other tapes, radio, computer, etc. in 2017. It's very pleasant putting a tape in the deck for work music. If they can get their marketing straightened out, and the FPGA method gets a lot of mileage, I can see this being a really nice device.

jogu 5y ago

> I guess my main argument is, I could make a RetroPi in a few hours with every emulator, and every rom, and meet all of the marketing criteria with better settings. Including better compatibility. > Assuming they're trying to advertise to my market, why would I pay 50x the cost for an inferior product? Why wouldn't they start from where emulation enthusiasts currently are instead of way behind? If you're happy with RetroPi then Analogue's products simply aren't for you. Being able to use my original controllers, accessories, cartridges directly (not just dumping the rom) is important to me. Having a big Street Fighter II cartridge sticking out, two controllers right there, and simply pushing the power button to immediately get into that game is important to me. It strikes up conversations and leads to impromptu gameplay in a way that a RetroPi or something similar likely doesn't.

spicybright 5y ago
For me and my friends, "let's play contra" doesn't take longer than maybe 10 seconds from intention to the start screen. I have a retro pi that lives always connected to my tv for impromptu play like you describe. The Analogue OS doesn't say if it supports TV output or controllers besides > OS is designed to connect seamlessly to virtually every 8BitDo Bluetooth, 2.4g and next gen controller. Wired and wireless. With button mapping on a controller by controller, system by system basis. I attached two cheap USB NES adapters to it, allowing NES controllers of all kinds to be plugged in. It works perfect for contra, battle toads, tetris, whatever, and feels extrememly close to native form my experience (which is impressive to me, as I used to play competitive NES tetris, which requires 1 or 2 frame input windows for some techniques) EDIT: And TBH if that format is best for you, why not just spend your money on a real console instead? It'll definitely be cheaper and will ALWAYS boot faster than anything else you can buy.
- jogu 5y ago
  > For me and my friends, "let's play contra" doesn't take longer than maybe 10 seconds from intention to the start screen. But how would they know you have Contra and think to play it? The presence of a physical cartridge or recognizable console sparks the spontaneity. I think Analogue's consoles do this in a way that RetroPi does not. > The Analogue OS doesn't say if it supports TV output or controllers To be clear, I'm not talking exclusively about Analogue OS or the Analogue Pocket, but their other existing products the Mega Sg and Super Nt. > And TBH if that format is best for you, why not just spend your money on a real console instead? It'll definitely be cheaper and will ALWAYS boot faster than anything else you can buy. Unfortunately this isn't the case. Especially given the recent retro gaming boom inflating prices. You also have to consider that retro consoles are borderline unusable on modern TVs (even if they have composite input) and you'll need to purchase a quality upscaler (or hardware mod), which can run anywhere from $80 to $500 depending on what you get. If you don't mind having a CRT you can go that route too, but nice CRTs are also quite expensive. Then if you're interested in playing ROMs that's unlockable via a jailbreak on the Super Nt vs paying $80 - $200 for a flash cartridge. So here's what I want: 1) Play on a modern TV via HDMI 2) Play original cartridges directly 3) Native support for original controller hardware 4) Support for additional accessories that worked on original hardware 5) The option to play ROMs if a particular game is inaccessible physically The Super Nt/Mega Sg provide all of these things at a much cheaper price than trying to get the equivalent on original hardware.